Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Out of line?

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It just today's very sensitive society. ?I got a phone call from the principal and the music teacher the other day because my 7 year old 1st grader was rolling his eyes at the teacher while she was talking to him!!! :

I KNOW this is definately a genetic thing... ;D

 

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dirty looks? too bad my DD's not a pitcher, i would have her over there pronto! he must have all boys at home, the kind that throw gloves down and kick each other in the nads....cause if he had daughters he'd be used to the 1) killer eye roll/stare and the 2) manipulative dollar/more money look...

 

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I had a freshman baseball player, playing varsity, one time giving me the dirty looks. He wanted the outside of the outside corner and didn't have enough control to earn it. The first time I sent his catcher out to talk to him and let him know I wasn't going to put up with the dirty looks. He kept it up, this time I walk out to the mound to tell him to tie his shoes while I cleaned the plate. I explained to him that he wasn't hitting the plate and if he wanted to finish the ball game he better straighten his act up. The next batter he gave me another look and before I could say anything to him, his coach was pulling him. His catcher told me he was a cocky freshman and this had happened more than once. As an umpire it is an unwritten rule you don't stare down an umpire. Most will allow a quick outburst and then go on, but you want to stare down the ump you have crossed that line. mho!

 

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It just today's very sensitive society. ?I got a phone call from the principal and the music teacher the other day because my 7 year old 1st grader was rolling his eyes at the teacher while she was talking to him!!! :

All sensativity aside...would you have rolled you're eyes at a teacher when you were in school? I remember being too scared to step out of line for fear of what my parents would do if I got in trouble at school.

 

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I have seen this type of thing more than usual this year--or should I say more obvious than usual at least by a couple of pitchers. Even worse is when the pitcher laughs toward the coach or teammates when she disagrees with an umpire's call.

It isn't just the pitcher though; the words some of the players say to the umpires or throw their equipment in the dugout is worse than I have seen it in the past.

 

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Sadly, this type of behavior by kids is becoming all too common in today's society. If my kid ever tried to show up an adult like that she would be apologizing to him after the game and apologizing to her team. It is disrespectful and I hate to see it. It reflects poorly on her parents, her coaches, and her school.

This line from the original post says it all: "I told him he would do well to grow a thicker skin and that he didn't understand teenage girls very well."

Teach your daughter to respect authority, not thumb her nose at it.

 

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An occasional negative reaction should not prompt the umpire to do anything. The key word is "occasional". I agree that the more advanced the level the less I would expect a pitcher to react.

It was suggested by my daughter's former pitching coach to smile when she got really frustrated with with a call. I always kind of liked that idea...I can just imagine an umpire chastising a pitcher for smiling on the mound?

 

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backstop,
i see your point, but as usual doing the "right" thing is outvoted 20-something posts to your one..

we had a game last week, some bad calls, some actually really good, but coach was sent "to the bench" (he wasn't officially thrown out but couldn't walk out on the field to coach baserunners or talk to his pitcher)...even during the game, girls got a warning for mock-grunting (their pitcher grunted when she pitched, and as teenage girls go, grunting is grounds for immediate roll-eye dissapproval..we end up losing 8-7 in extra frames

anyhow, DD gets in the car, she starts going on and on about how she "sucked" and how the other girls were blaming other teammates instead of wrrying about their own play, and of course crying about the ref calls, and like usual, here i am saying, "stop crying about looking at a 3rd strike call when you should have been swinging at strikes 1 or 2!"
it's always easier AFTER the fact to look back on not getting distracted by umps...even while their own parents sarcastically clap after the game was over and feed comments like "good one even though you blew most of the calls!"...and playing good ball every inning...

about the most DD does is say "good pitch" after a close one or ask privately on her own a few innings later (she was called out on a force out running to second after a dropped pop-up by the left fielder when the shortstop wasn't on the bag, hence the problem with one ump and 2, her not going halfway when the ball was in the air which was her baserunnign mistake!) and he tells her, "there's only 1 of me and i can't see everything" which, of course, reminded me of one at Teays Valley last year when she picked off a girl at third only to be clled safe and the ump says "i think you got her" huh?

in fact, the number of "bad call" and "bad coaching" threads is very high right now that school ball is ending its run and the scent of travel ball is among us...maybe the reason is that the parents who cry foul the most have DD's that are always throwing their gloves and staring down the refs

 

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Sadly, this type of behavior by kids is becoming all too common in today's society. ?If my kid ever tried to show up an adult like that she would be apologizing to him after the game and apologizing to her team.

My dd turned her back on a referee in a basketball game after being called for the same type of foul three times. ?The referee was just trying to tell her what she was doing wrong and all three time she got mad and didn't listen to the referee at all. ?I was already angry at her behavior when she turned her back to the ref and walked away while she was trying to explain for the 3rd time what she was being called for. ?Believe me teenager or not you absolutely never disrespect an adult in a authoritative position or and adult period. ?I made her apologize face to face with the ref after the game. ?

Has she stopped reacting badly... no. ?But eventually after she has to apologize for every infraction she will. ?She is only 12. ?Hopefully by the time she is 18 it will have sunk in!! ?LOL

The problem today is parents take their kids side and not the adult. Kids today are rude and disrespectful to their parents. Why wouldn't they do the same to any other adult. We as parents need to get control. If they get away with it with you they will get away with it with others. Parents hold your kids accountable for their behavior and things will change. IMHO

 

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Sadly, this type of behavior by kids is becoming all too common in today's society. ?If my kid ever tried to show up an adult like that she would be apologizing to him after the game and apologizing to her team. ?It is disrespectful and I hate to see it. ?It reflects poorly on her parents, her coaches, and her school.

This line from the original post says it all: ?"I told him he would do well to grow a thicker skin and that he didn't understand teenage girls very well."

Teach your daughter to respect authority, not thumb her nose at it.

Backstop, my DD has been taught to respect authority. ?I talked to her afterwards on the way home and she told me she was upset more with herself for missing her marks. ?She meant no disrespect to the umpire at all. That is just how he perceived it. ?A WRONG perception at that! ?Believe me, if she had intentionally tried to upstage the umpire, he would have had to race me to the circle to jerk her off the field! ?At no time did she ever "thumb her nose at authority".

The original basis for my post was to find out if anyone had seen a player receive a warning for "dirty looks", not to JUSTIFY it in any shape or form. ?And my remarks after the game to him included telling both umpires they called a good game, which is something I do after every game. ?My thicker skin remark was meant as constructive criticism, in hopes that it would make him a better umpire. ?There was absolutely no malice or intent to ridicule him. ?Umpires have a very difficult job and I respect anyone that has the fortitude to officiate a game. ?I just felt in this instance that this particular umpire could have handled the situation differently. ?I thought the way Bretman describes his handling of these situations was spot-on.

I do agree with you that our youngsters do need to learn a good bit about sportsmanship. ?I have always taught any team I coach that when they put on a uniform they represent a community, school, organization or business and all that wore that uniform before them. ?The name on the front is always more important than the name on the back. ?My daughter has been taught that rule and lives by it, because she knows she will have to answer to her family if she does anything to disgrace the name on the front, because ultimately it reflects badly on her family's name on the back of that shirt.

 

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So thats why my dd wanted a game face and big white sunglasses!

 

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....The problem today is parents take their kids side and not the adult. ?

What is wrong with having the back of your kid? If they are in the wrong, then yes, teach them, correct them, guide them. BUT I have seen many adults act like children too. Do they get a pass just because they are an adult. If my kid is in the right, then I'll stick up for them before I do for some stranger. BTW, I do agree eye rolling and showing up an ump is not in the right for a kid.

 

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You are enabling her bahvior. If she was "upset at herself for missing her marks", then why didn't she ask the umpire for a mirror so she could glare at the responsible party rather than glaring at the umpire?

If she were my daughter, she would have immediately apologized. Trust me, my kid would not have heard the words come out of my mouth "That's OK, honey - you're a teenage girl and that adult umpire just needs to grow thicker skin and learn better how to deal with you."

Here in a couple of years when she gets a job and comes home all upset because the boss yelled at her, try sticking up for her by marching down to the office and telling the boss he needs to better understand your daughter and grow a thicker skin. See how far that gets you.

 

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[quote author=sad627 link=1210252123/25#28 date=1210337464]....The problem today is parents take their kids side and not the adult. ?

What is wrong with having the back of your kid? If they are in the wrong, then yes, teach them, correct them, guide them. BUT I have seen many adults act like children too. [/quote]

Ringer you are absolutely right. I would have the back of my child if I believed them to be right. However, they are NEVER under any circumstances to disrespect an adult. (unless of course there is abuse) They can come to me or my husband and we will deal with it. For Ex: Our neighbor has a huge problem with our kids riding their 4 wheeler around our yard because it kicks up dirt and the dirt ultimately gets on his house. (we live in the country) He often approaches my kids to ream them for riding it and the dirt. They are not in the wrong, however, they are not to disrespect him in any way. They come and get me or my husband and we handle it. They never once have raised their voices to him or argued with him.

There is a difference between having your kids back and your child being disrespectful to an adult. You should take care of the situation they should not. At least until they learn how to deal with it like an adult.

Also, you are correct when you say some adults behave poorly to. If you notice their kids learn by example!! Unfortunately you can't control other adults or other adults children. You can only be responsible for you own. So we as parents need to set a good example!

 

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You are enabling her bahvior. ?If she was "upset at herself for missing her marks", then why didn't she ask the umpire for a mirror so she could glare at the responsible party rather than glaring at the umpire?

If she were my daughter, she would have immediately apologized. ?Trust me, my kid would not have heard the words come out of my mouth "That's OK, honey - you're a teenage girl and that adult umpire just needs to grow thicker skin and learn better how to deal with you."

Here in a couple of years when she gets a job and comes home all upset because the boss yelled at her, try sticking up for her by marching down to the office and telling the boss he needs to better understand your daughter and grow a thicker skin. ?See how far that gets you.

Am I missing something here?? :-? She did not glare at the umpire, she pounded her glove more out of frustration at herself, not at him. When did I ever state that it was OK if she glared at an umpire?? My point (and something that Backstop seems to be missing) is that this was not handled correctly. If he felt she was showing him up, talk to the coach about it. Do not just assume the player is showing you up. Or should she have just been considered guilty? It should have been handled differently, in my opinion.

I have never stated, and in fact I make that point in my last post, that I do not condone any type of behavior that would have upstaged this individual or his authority in the game. I was only looking for responses from people that have seen an umpire call time and talk to a player about "dirty looks", I am not trying to condone this behavior (which is not what happened in this case, no matter what Backstop feels).

Now, I think I will take my own advice and grow a thicker skin towards Backstop's opinions on my parenting abilities.

 

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Backstop, Sad,

I think we are on the same page. I would never want my kid to disrespect an adult or take matters into their hands either. I was mearly stating that sometimes the kid really didn't do anything wrong and the adults are the guilty party. Maybe this should be in a different thread because I don't think this was the case on the original post.

 

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You're right it should be in another post! LOL ;D You made me hijack Ringer! JK

 

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I understand the original post. Perhaps your daughter could have said to the umpire, "I am sorry, I am mad at myself, I apologize if my grimaces were taken personally. It was not directed at you or your calls". I have taught my daughter to talk things out with people-speak up!

As far as rolling eyes at or turning backs on adults when they are talking, that is behavior that SHOULD NOT be tolerated! I have to say that todays youth are FAR more disrespectful to adults and authority figures than in my generation. It has gotten OUT OF HAND!

I was told that if I got in trouble away from home, I would get DOUBLE the punishment at home. It worked for me and it works for my daughter. You don't ever disrespect your elders-that one works too!

In the umpires defense, MANY pitchers not only give dirty looks but practically throw a tantrum when they are not getting the strike calls. Pitchers who behave this way are just spoiled prima donnas that think the whole team, game, universe revolves around them! Who fosters this behavior? I'd put my money on their Daddy coaches!

 

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Just a thought.......how many times have we all reacted loudly to an umpire missing what we all thought should have been a called strike??? My guess is many many times..........for our team anyway........we know the girls are not going to like every call......we preach all winter that in those situations look at us...the coaches and not the umpire....it is the coaches job to discuss the calls or no calls with the umpires.......not the girls.....oh sure on occassion a gut reaction may occur but in general we instruct them to smile....walk the cirlcle and move on to the next pitch. If a team wants to be respected as a sound program who do all the little things right, it starts with the little things.....we are not going to get every call, every strike, to go our way......it also works the other way.....the other team may be the ones getting the short end....in both cases we try to teach our kids to act like they have been there before!

 

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A very good coach of my dd's gave her some very good advice:

"No one should be able to tell if you are winning or losing a game by the actions or reactions of the pitcher"

I think that is good advice and I am trying to get her to NOT react. However she is 12 and you have to repeat behavior to create muscle memory!!! We may have a long road ahead!! ;D