Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Pitcher getting lead runner at second

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Last time I checked their are 9 FIELDERS on the field.
They all better be able to field, pitcher or not. I've state on posts before as well that not only the pitcher needs to make the play, but be able to make a good overhand throw to wherever she's throwing. Thank goodness ours can, many can't do that simple task, because they focus on pitching more than fielding.

it's that Steve Sax syndrome thing going on...

 

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I'll buy that. Infield pop-ups are a special situation. Given the option, you want your "non pitchers" to make "routine" catches - when given an option. Why? Because it's practiced by them a lot more than the pitchers. I was more or less referring to grounders or bloops hit fairly directly to the pitcher where there is no other option.

While in Florida, DD made a diving elbow scraping catch on a pop-up bunt, which prevented a baserunner. No physical harm done. Should a coach tell pitchers to NOT try to make this play? Some would say don't try, because they don't want the pitcher getting hurt. I disagree with that philosophy, because I don't believe in putting the pitcher on a pedestal and treating her like a Prima Donna. And what message does that send to the rest of the team?

At OSU if they dont put out that effort they will feel the rath..lol

 

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Parma; You are being a little cavalier with your pitchers. Everyone else on the field has the luxury to review what to do with the ball if it is hit to her and then the time to do it. The pitchers have very little time to react to a hit because they are still in their follow through. I think you want your pitcher focused on the pitch. If she can get the out a second great but at least get an out. Don't throw it to the outfield and don't look at 2nd and then miss the out at 1st and for goodness sake don't get hurt.

All the more reason the pitcher should already know what to do.....BEFORE SHE PITCHES " if its hit fast to me I am going to second, if its slow or i have to move to get it I going to first "

 

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Did you get your answer Mike? lol

 

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On the surface, the logical and "macho" answer is to go for the lead runner, but I would argue that it's not always the best strategy in fastpitch where the bases are shorter and double plays are less frequent ... and my guess is that it gets teams in more trouble than it gets them out of. Let me explain my point.

While people can say all they want to about pitchers' fielding, their main focus is always going to be on getting the hitter out. If they are thinking a lot about whether the runner on first is really fast, or is going on the play, or what am I going to do if the ball is hit back at me, they are not as focused on the hitter. Sorry but the pitcher and catcher have different priorities than the rest of the fielders who should definitely be thinking about these things.

Secondly, as JoeA says, pitchers and infields don't often get to practice these kinds of plays very much. Additionally, I think a lot of pitchers are so used to throwing underhanded, that they have difficulty making sharp overhand throws. And a play like this needs a sharp overhand throw.

Finally, I also think its depends a little bit more on the game situation. If that's the winning run out there, then the pitcher knows that and is going to try to make that play almost every time. But if they're up 5 runs in the 5th, why take the chance of giving the other team a big inning? I also feel a little differently about it if there's one out vs. none. If I can get the 2nd out of the inning at 1B easily, and am in the bottom part of the other team's lineup, then I might rather have an out than take a chance of putting 2 baserunners on.

Call it what you want ... I am just saying if you always do the "macho" thing in coaching, then be prepared to lose a few games that you might otherwise win.

 

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I'll have to remind DD to avoid the "macho" thing. J/K - yankin your chain! Actually, I agree with your general idea. Play smart.

 

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Lol ... well, its the coaches who are trying to be "macho" ... probably not a good word but you get the point. I have coached with a few newer fastpitch coaches over the years who previously coached baseball, or whose ideas on strategy have been based on what they see and hear while watching MLB, and who I have seen yell at the girls to always go for the lead winner. After the ball gets thrown into centerfield three or four times, they usually figure out that its not always the best strategy.

 

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Did you get your answer Mike? lol

Just enjoying the show at this point. Trying to come up with my next thought provoker.

 

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The original question seemed to be directed at college showcase players, and how a pitcher should handle this split-second decision. It would be pointless for a pitcher to "pre-think" situations before a pitch. That's a prescription for turning a pitcher into a first class head case! It's not about thinking what to do beforehand, it's split-second reactions to what happens and using training and instincts to execute. The reason a college level pitcher can react WITHOUT THINKING is because they have been taught the SAME THING from a young age. You can't teach a kid to "play it safe" at 10u, then change the rules at 16u! The mental process for execution MUST BE THE SAME up through the age groups for it to stick and become second nature.

Hopefully some newer coaches at younger levels have gained some knowledge and insight from this discussion. Unfortunately for some girls vying for the college ranks, they're stuck with stubborn personalities of some coaches who will continue to teach the same flawed mechanics.

Any of you guys teach your kids opposite field hitting? Now that's a thought provoking topic!

 

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Just to clarify ... my point was not about what girls are taught at either 16-U or 10-U, but what might be the best game strategy including at the college showcase level.

 

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The original question seemed to be directed at college showcase players, and how a pitcher should handle this split-second decision. It would be pointless for a pitcher to "pre-think" situations before a pitch. That's a prescription for turning a pitcher into a first class head case! It's not about thinking what to do beforehand, it's split-second reactions to what happens and using training and instincts to execute. The reason a college level pitcher can react WITHOUT THINKING is because they have been taught the SAME THING from a young age. You can't teach a kid to "play it safe" at 10u, then change the rules at 16u! The mental process for execution MUST BE THE SAME up through the age groups for it to stick and become second nature.

Hopefully some newer coaches at younger levels have gained some knowledge and insight from this discussion. Unfortunately for some girls vying for the college ranks, they're stuck with stubborn personalities of some coaches who will continue to teach the same flawed mechanics.

Any of you guys teach your kids opposite field hitting? Now that's a thought provoking topic!

Sammy - very, very well put.

Regarding opposite field hitting, we have focused a significant amount of time this winter working on going backside with outside pitches and hitting backside to advance runners in key situations. If our backside hitting this weekend was any indication its starting to pay off but it still hasn't become instinctual yet. Same philosophy though - instruct, perform, repeat.

 

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Just to clarify ... my point was not about what girls are taught at either 16-U or 10-U, but what might be the best game strategy including at the college showcase level.

The best answer remains, depending on the talent level of your pitcher as to where she might go with the throw and what the situation calls for.
A pitcher with a shortstops arm , when the play is there, can go to second to get the lead runner, and a possible DP. A pitcher with an average to bad arm might be better off going to first.
I have seen VERY good pitchers who did not have good arms, in fact poor arms. Their best bet was a throw to first. Sometimes even that was an adventure.

 

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always lead runner at that level..... duh

 

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always lead runner at that level..... duh

Always? Obviously you have not seen some of these pitchers throw overhand.

 

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When I was younger and played SS and pitcher (baseball) we were taught to lead the ss with the throw, never wait on the ss to get to the base, this will get them killed. Get them the ball as fast as possible better chance to turn two and avoid the base runner on a hard slide. This is something you must practice, if the ss is going to beat the throw to the base they should stop short of the base so when the pitcher leads them the ss can step into the ball and keep momentum going towards first. Also if the ss has time they should come from behind base like from left field so they are going towards first and that angle takes them out of line with the sliding base runner. This dose take practice, but it is not as hard as it sounds, the ss is already moving towards 2b because that is were the ball was hit so as the pitcher pitcher fields the ball the ss can set up as the pitcher sets her feet and turns. When I played baseball pitcher fielding practice was somthing you worked on, not daily but a few times each week at the HS level.

 

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LOL. I can't believe this thread has gone on as long as it has. You only have 2 choices either get the lead runner or don't. This is funny stuff!:lmao:

 

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LOL. I can't believe this thread has gone on as long as it has. You only have 2 choices either get the lead runner or don't. This is funny stuff!:lmao:

Obviously it is not that simple.