Pitching Rules

[Dawgsdad]

At practice yesterday my DD coach noticed that while she was pitching, that her pivot foot comes of the pitchers plate during her rocking motion. She starts out with both feet and all the nuances for a legal pitch then begins rocking back, her pivot foot comes off but her stepping foot remains on and then her pivot foot comes back in contact with the plate and then her stepping foot comes off and moves forward and eventually drags her pivot foot. Now is this legal or not? Basically its not a back step and at least one foot remains in contact during the windup until she releases the ball. The rules do not specify that her delivery is illegal but her coach believes it is.

 

[BretMan2]

From the high school rules (ASA has a similar requirement):

c. The pivot foot may remain in contact with or may push off and drag away from the pitching plate prior to the front foot touching the ground, as long as the pivot foot remains in contact with the ground...

This rule says that the pivot foot can do one of two things. Loosing contact with the pitching plate, prior to pushing off and dragging, is not one of them.

 

[Dawgsdad]

Thanks Bretman. We will work to correct her.

 

[LADY_KNIGHTS]

The drive foot must remain in contact with the pitching rubber until the delivery of the pitch. Any pickng up of the drive foot off of the pitching rubber is considered a crow hop...sliding of the foot across the rubber as long as it remains in contact with the rubber is not a crow hop.

So what you are describing sounds to be a crow hop...but not in a way that most of us usually reference it...but still a crow hop...thus illegal.

 

[lewam3]

While we are on the subject of rules...
This winter my DD was warned 3 times by the same umpire in 2 different games that she was pitching illegally because she had her hand on the ball in her glove as she was "receiving the sign" for the pitch. She would:
1. Step on the plate with right foot on the plate and the left toe touching the back of the plate.
2. Her right hand holding the ball at her right side, the glove hand hanging on her left side, "presenting"
3. Her glove then comes over and covers the ball in her right hand as she receives the signal.
4. She then goes into her rocker motion as hands separate and she pitches.
5. Umpire said you cannot bring hands together until AFTER you have received the sign from the catcher.
6. I am like..."what????" DD is like "what?????"

Is this a rule? (#5)

 

[Dawgsdad]

I wouldn't consider it a crow hop. The heel of her drive foot comes up as she is kinda on the ball of that foot ( the bottom of her shoe is perpendicular to the ground) and before her step foot comes off the plate, she replants her heel, then strides or drives to deliver the pitch. The back half of her drive foot is still over top of the plate but it is up in the air. We didn't have pitchers plate handy. I tried to upload a video but it wont work.

The drive foot must remain in contact with the pitching rubber until the delivery of the pitch. Any pickng up of the drive foot off of the pitching rubber is considered a crow hop...sliding of the foot across the rubber as long as it remains in contact with the rubber is not a crow hop.

So what you are describing sounds to be a crow hop...but not in a way that most of us usually reference it...but still a crow hop...thus illegal.

 

[LADY_KNIGHTS]

In your first post you said her pivot foot comes off the rubber. So does it lose contact or not? If she is rocking and maintaining contact she is fine...but if her foot is losing contact at all it is illegal.

 

[BretMan2]

While we are on the subject of rules...
This winter my DD was warned 3 times by the same umpire in 2 different games that she was pitching illegally because she had her hand on the ball in her glove as she was "receiving the sign" for the pitch. She would:
1. Step on the plate with right foot on the plate and the left toe touching the back of the plate.
2. Her right hand holding the ball at her right side, the glove hand hanging on her left side, "presenting"
3. Her glove then comes over and covers the ball in her right hand as she receives the signal.
4. She then goes into her rocker motion as hands separate and she pitches.
5. Umpire said you cannot bring hands together until AFTER you have received the sign from the catcher.
6. I am like..."what????" DD is like "what?????"

Is this a rule? (#5)

The rules say that the pitcher must step onto the plate with the hands separated and must take, or simulate taking, her signal with the hands separated.

At some point following that the hands must be brought together. It is the umpire's judgment whether or not the hands were apart long enough to satisfy the "taking the signal" requirement. The intent of this rule is to force the pitcher to pause before starting her motion, thus preventing a quick pitch to the batter.

For all the complaints we hear about leaping/crow hopping/foot contact/etc. I see this rule violated probably more than any of them. Usually if I call it, the coach is shocked and I get the good old, "She's never been called for that before". Just from a practical game management perspective, I'll tend to give the pitcher the benefit of the doubt here. As long as she's not stepping on the rubber with her hands already joined, and not quick pitching, who's to say she didn't get her signal in in that brief moment when her hands were still apart?

 

[Dawgsdad]

Ok. Yes it does lose contact. I was trying to say her back half of her foot is over the plate but there is space between her foot and plate. I was told that as long as her heel hovers above the plate and she replants, she is fine by not gaining an advantage.

In your first post you said her pivot foot comes off the rubber. So does it lose contact or not? If she is rocking and maintaining contact she is fine...but if her foot is losing contact at all it is illegal.

 

[gcg3refs]

Easiest way to remember, " Hands Apart To Start", as Bretman2 stated, receive the sign, (or simulate taking the sign), this is the same in baseball to take the sign. As for the foot disengaging the pitchers plate prior to the pitch, it is a crow hop and shoud be called by the base umpire.

 

[lewam3]

Thanks Bretman.

 

[FastBat]

The rules say that the pitcher must step onto the plate with the hands separated and must take, or simulate taking, her signal with the hands separated.

At some point following that the hands must be brought together. It is the umpire's judgment whether or not the hands were apart long enough to satisfy the "taking the signal" requirement. The intent of this rule is to force the pitcher to pause before starting her motion, thus preventing a quick pitch to the batter.

Can pitcher take the signal with the ball in the glove? I had an ump, tell my dd she had to separate glove and ball, she usually takes the signal with ball in glove but both empty hand and glove with ball are visible.

 

[BretMan2]

Can pitcher take the signal with the ball in the glove? I had an ump, tell my dd she had to separate glove and ball, she usually takes the signal with ball in glove but both empty hand and glove with ball are visible.

I hate say it but you were told wrong. The ball can be either in the bare hand or in the glove.

 

[dannyboy]

Bretman,

Please shout this from mountain tops!!! Everyone believes the ball must be presented in hand.

I hate say it but you were told wrong. The ball can be either in the bare hand or in the glove.

 

[Dad of Daughters]

The rules say that the pitcher must step onto the plate with the hands separated and must take, or simulate taking, her signal with the hands separated.

At some point following that the hands must be brought together. It is the umpire's judgment whether or not the hands were apart long enough to satisfy the "taking the signal" requirement. The intent of this rule is to force the pitcher to pause before starting her motion, thus preventing a quick pitch to the batter.

For all the complaints we hear about leaping/crow hopping/foot contact/etc. I see this rule violated probably more than any of them. Usually if I call it, the coach is shocked and I get the good old, "She's never been called for that before". Just from a practical game management perspective, I'll tend to give the pitcher the benefit of the doubt here. As long as she's not stepping on the rubber with her hands already joined, and not quick pitching, who's to say she didn't get her signal in in that brief moment when her hands were still apart?

So to clarify on this point...the actual sign DOES NOT have to be taken with the pitcher contacting the pitcher's plate. In other words, pitcher can be standing directly behind the pitcher's plate, take the sign, then step legally on to the plate hands separated, pause at least 1 second (thus simulating taking a sign), then bring hands together and start pitch. Is this correct?

 

[Ri-domination]

So to clarify on this point...the actual sign DOES NOT have to be taken with the pitcher contacting the pitcher's plate. In other words, pitcher can be standing directly behind the pitcher's plate, take the sign, then step legally on to the plate hands separated, pause at least 1 second (thus simulating taking a sign), then bring hands together and start pitch. Is this correct?

That's what we were told at the Spano last night by the officials with one of our young pitchers. At least simulate the sign with a pause.

 

[Dad of Daughters]

That's what we were told at the Spano last night by the officials with one of our young pitchers. At least simulate the sign with a pause.

No, he actually told us that still wasn't legal. I was sitting right in front of you during that discussion...

 

[BretMan2]

So to clarify on this point...the actual sign DOES NOT have to be taken with the pitcher contacting the pitcher's plate. In other words, pitcher can be standing directly behind the pitcher's plate, take the sign, then step legally on to the plate hands separated, pause at least 1 second (thus simulating taking a sign), then bring hands together and start pitch. Is this correct?

You have it right (and this is a commonly confused rule).

The rule doesn't say that the only time the pitcher can get her signal is when she's standing on the pitcher's plate. She can get it before she steps on if she wants to.

The only requirement is that once she does step on the plate she has to pause, to either take or similate taking a signal. This is intended to prevent quick pitching, where the pitcher steps on the rubber and immediately rolls through with a pitch, all in one motion. The signal isn't the key- the pause itself is.

The only thing you posted that I have a small issue with is "pause at least one second". There isn't any minimum time listed in the rule for how long the pitcher has to pause. She just needs to make a sufficient pause and that is at the judgment of the umpire.

 

[Dad of Daughters]

You have it right (and this is a commonly confused rule).

The rule doesn't say that the only time the pitcher can get her signal is when she's standing on the pitcher's plate. She can get it before she steps on if she wants to.

The only requirement is that once she does step on the plate she has to pause, to either take or similate taking a signal. This is intended to prevent quick pitching, where the pitcher steps on the rubber and immediately rolls through with a pitch, all in one motion. The signal isn't the key- the pause itself is.

The only thing you posted that I have a small issue with is "pause at least one second". There isn't any minimum time listed in the rule for how long the pitcher has to pause. She just needs to make a sufficient pause and that is at the judgment of the umpire.

Thanks Bretman. I misapplied the "at least 1 second" from the next provision down in the manual (Rule 6.1.E), which appears to be the minimum amount of time the hands have to be together before separating them again to start the pitch.

Dear Spano Umpires and UIC,

Please see above.

Kindest Regards,

The guy who politely tried to help you understand this correctly after you all said you "knew I was wrong" and "didn't care what I said" and at the end of our discussion implored me to "wait to see all the illegal pitches we call tomorrow"