Question about a call

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A ground ball to 3rd with a runner on 1st. The throw to 2nd arrived at the exact same time as the runner - who came in standing up (which she shouldn't have by the way). The throw took the the glove to the the runner, who was on 2nd at the time, and there was a minor collision. The fielder dropped the ball (runner would have been safe even if caught). No call by the field umpire. Home plate umpire walks out on the field and motions for the field umpire to confer and the field umpire ruled the runner out saying she had to avoid contact, even if she was on base. He said that it was his call.

Being hearing impaired, I can read lips easily. The home plate umpire "suggested" that the runner had to avoid contact - even though she arrive at the base before the throw. The field umpire then ruled the runner out.

I was flabbergasted - bret and others- your thoughts?

 

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Horrible call. The runner has as much right to the bag as the fielder and is under no obligation to slide. What if the runner decided to round second and head for third? Is she not allowed? This is no different than a play at first base with no orange bag. The runner does not have to stop and let the fielder catch the ball.

 

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Sounds like a bad call to me.

There's a big difference between a runner going into a base in a perfectly legal manner versus one who purposely plows into a defender. It also sounds like a case where the throw pulled the fielder- or, her glove- into the runner as opposed to the runner crashing into the fielder.

You will have contact many times between fielders and runners, but all contact does not automatically equal illegal contact

I'm also bothered by the way these umpires handled this. This call is the base umpire's responsibility. The plate umpire doesn't really have any reason to be coming onto the field and suggesting anything to the base umpire. He was overstepping his bounds and should not be offering any "suggestions" about another umpire's call unless specifically asked by that other umpire.

The base umpire must have been a total rookie. That he let another umpire basically "sell" him into making a call that was his to make in the first place shows a great deal of inexperience.

 

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It is funny you sould mention that. The same home plate umpire warned my runner to first that she ran to the inside of 1st base (no double base) and that she was obligated to run to the "outside" of 1st base. My contention was that she was entitled to the whole base as long as she did not run in fair territory to impede the throw.

I am really sick of the umpires that make the game about "them" instead of the girls. I actually cannot wait until we are 16U and get some comeptent umpires. Sorry if this sound bitter but I am use to umpires that call the games correctly. So far, I give the USSSA umps a thumbs up over the NSA umps. There is still alot of ball to be played so I will reserve my judgement - for a while.

 

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Johnnie,

What about the HOH pitcher who was replanting on every pitch and the umpires response is "I just dont see it".

I dont think they could see anything.

 

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LOL, funny you should mention that. ;D It kinda goes with the scheme of the day.

BTW. your CFer made one of the best play I've seen today. You have to be proud of her. The thing I have always appreciated about the Stingrays is the intgrity of the coaching staff and the quality of their players. I will say this today and forever - I appreciate the way you play the game and the way the team is coached. Totally top class from top to bottom.

 

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Ok I saw a girl tossed from a game today. She came in elbows up to home plate, catcher was waiting with the ball. It could have been a defensive move on her part I'm not sure. Umpire said she had to slide or give up. I thought that was more of a rec league rule. This was USSSA what do you guys think.

 

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I've never really worked any U-Trip games, so I had to look up their rules on-line. It looks like much of their rule book is copied directly from the high school rule book. Entire passages are word-for-word identical. Here is the section that applies to runners avoiding fielders:

Rule 8-18: Any Runner is Out When:

B. He slides illegally and causes illegal contact and/or illegally alters the actions of a fielder in the immediate act of making a play on him.
PENALTY: The runner is out and the ball is dead immediately and interference is called.
NOTE: Runners are never required to slide but, if the runner elects to slide, the slide shall be legal.
C. He does not legally attempt to avoid a fielder in the immediate act of making a play on him.
PENALTY: The runner is out and the ball remains alive unless interference is called.
NOTE: Jumping, hurdling, and leaping are all legal attempts to avoid a fielder only if the fielder is lying on the ground.
D. Malicious contact occurs (always supersedes obstruction).
E. On a force play at any base, the runner or retired runner fails to execute a legal slide, or does not attempt to avoid the fielder on the play.

Which all boils down to..."slide or avoid contact".

That is the rule. The judgment of the umpire is another matter. This kind of contact can be incidental (initiated by the defense and no penalty for the runner), legal (the runner was "attempting" to avoid it, but some contact was still made), illegal (no attempt to avoid it was made) or malicious (with great force intended to injure the fielder or puposely "take her out of"' the play).

The only one of these that should get an ejection is malicious contact. It's hard to judge a play like this without seeing it. The contact could have been legal resulting in no penalty, illegal resulting in an out or malicious resulting in an out and an ejection. It all depends on how the players were reacting and what the umpire saw and judged.

As described, my best guess (and it's just a guess) would be that the contact was not malicious (no ejection), but possibly illegal (runner out).

 

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Thanks Johnnies: ? My dd was the center fielder. ? You gave her lots of action Sunday in CF again ! ?She normally plays ss. ?The call was horrible at second. What is really bad the same play happened in our game and they didn't ?call our runner out against you. . ?Umpires ? have to at least be consistent. ? The strike zone was all over the place. ? ?The replant should have been called by the base umpire. ? It was our first tourney and we need to get the rust off.

 

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I saw the play as well and couldn't believe the result. I felt like the base runner already on second was putting her hands to protect her head as the ball was headed straight at her.The ball was high and continued off the top of the glove into centerfield. If the runner would have tried to continue to third on the over throw and the collision occured..... I wonder what he would have called and then to get get chippy IMO about the base running next inning was ridiculous.