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as usual we were discussing softball at dinner last week and my son , Cameron, who wouldn't know a rise from a drop said " who was that girl that had the crazy colored contact lenses" LOL
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@Dan:
I'm not angry with you, at all, and you don't need to apologize. I was sincerely asking you if you had any ideas about what we could do to create a better pipeline to coaches.
@Coop:
Bill Conroy used to own the pro Chicago Bandits team and he is now "an Owner/Director of the Premier Girls Fastpitch and Surf City Tourneys" in charge of " sales and marketing, which includes TV contracts, Media and Sponsor agreements". I'm guessing that he either gets compensated for that work and the work he does for the Beverly Bandits or his partnership in HTS Consulting ("High Tech Solutions, Inc." out of Chicago) gives him adequate wealth to spend the time and money that he clearly does on fastpitch. I think that's great, but there aren't a lot of fastpitch coaches in Ohio that have that kind of money and time. We do the best we can and given our limited resources it doesn't surprise me that players who have the resources and talent go out of state to get the kind of support that Bill Conroy can offer.
@SoCal Dad:
Good point, but I'm also sure that those Laser coaches are maintaining their college coach connections to make recommendations on older players even while they cycle down to the younger ages. My point is that it probably took these coaches a long time to get the credibility and the pipelines to Division 1 programs that they have. They are to be congratulated on that, but I think it is overly optimistic to assume that coaches with time-consuming day jobs and with teams that only charge $700 - $750 in fees can develop similar pipelines overnight.
I'm not angry with you, at all, and you don't need to apologize. I was sincerely asking you if you had any ideas about what we could do to create a better pipeline to coaches.
@Coop:
Bill Conroy used to own the pro Chicago Bandits team and he is now "an Owner/Director of the Premier Girls Fastpitch and Surf City Tourneys" in charge of " sales and marketing, which includes TV contracts, Media and Sponsor agreements". I'm guessing that he either gets compensated for that work and the work he does for the Beverly Bandits or his partnership in HTS Consulting ("High Tech Solutions, Inc." out of Chicago) gives him adequate wealth to spend the time and money that he clearly does on fastpitch. I think that's great, but there aren't a lot of fastpitch coaches in Ohio that have that kind of money and time. We do the best we can and given our limited resources it doesn't surprise me that players who have the resources and talent go out of state to get the kind of support that Bill Conroy can offer.
@SoCal Dad:
Good point, but I'm also sure that those Laser coaches are maintaining their college coach connections to make recommendations on older players even while they cycle down to the younger ages. My point is that it probably took these coaches a long time to get the credibility and the pipelines to Division 1 programs that they have. They are to be congratulated on that, but I think it is overly optimistic to assume that coaches with time-consuming day jobs and with teams that only charge $700 - $750 in fees can develop similar pipelines overnight.
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I happen to have a daughter that played for Championship 16s. We are also frantically searching for a new top notch team. There are not very many showcase teams of the '95 age group that have many openings. My daughter is devastated. Hopefully, it will all work out and we find a good fit for her as she absolutely loves the game and wants to play at the next level.
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CGS, you are correct that most coaches dont have that kind of backing but how do coaches develope these relationships that are needed for players to be marketed as big time players with out leaving Ohio to play.
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@Coop:
It takes a lot of effort and it will only happen over a period of time. Assuming that the players make their efforts by marketing themselves (sending college-specific emails/letters and copying us on those emails and anything they receive back relating to camp invitations, updating their profiles every time some significant event happens in the player's career, etc etc) Ted follows up with his own email that talks about the specific strengths of the player or the new significant event as well as with phone calls to serve as an intermediary in getting the player to the college for unofficial visits. Beyond that, a player can choose to hire one of the recruiting specialists if she thinks that is a better product than the efforts from her head coach. I think based on what I've heard Division 1 coaches say that these recruiting serves are a waste of money, but it is always an option.
As I said earlier, we also try to develop good relationships with any college coach who has taught NFCA courses we've attended or any college coach to whom we have been introduced in some other fashion. And I'm not shy about approaching any college coaches who show up at the exposure tournaments that we attend.
But the bottom line is probably that relationships with college coaches are best fostered by attending nationally recognized exposure tournaments and being able to talk about a particular player who has somehow caught the attention of the college coach. (Once the credibility of the travel ball coach has been established for the college coach, the need for a high number of such exposure tournaments will diminish). For many families on Ohio travel ball teams, the amount of resources that need to be expended to attend a significant number of such national exposure tournaments is just too much. That's why those who do have the resources often go to established out of state programs where everyone knows that it is going to cost a lot of money and take a lot of time to play.
BTW, nothing that I have said on this thread should be interpreted to say that travel ball players who stay in Ohio won't receive scholarships unless they play for a travel ball coach who has developed an extensive set of pipelines. They can and do receive such scholarships. It's just a matter of having better odds if the player plays for a head coach or a program that has the pipelines. And balanced against that is the question whether the player will see significant PT and/or will be happy playing for the pipeline coach or if there are other team dynamic issues that create an ill fit.
There are no simple answers.
It takes a lot of effort and it will only happen over a period of time. Assuming that the players make their efforts by marketing themselves (sending college-specific emails/letters and copying us on those emails and anything they receive back relating to camp invitations, updating their profiles every time some significant event happens in the player's career, etc etc) Ted follows up with his own email that talks about the specific strengths of the player or the new significant event as well as with phone calls to serve as an intermediary in getting the player to the college for unofficial visits. Beyond that, a player can choose to hire one of the recruiting specialists if she thinks that is a better product than the efforts from her head coach. I think based on what I've heard Division 1 coaches say that these recruiting serves are a waste of money, but it is always an option.
As I said earlier, we also try to develop good relationships with any college coach who has taught NFCA courses we've attended or any college coach to whom we have been introduced in some other fashion. And I'm not shy about approaching any college coaches who show up at the exposure tournaments that we attend.
But the bottom line is probably that relationships with college coaches are best fostered by attending nationally recognized exposure tournaments and being able to talk about a particular player who has somehow caught the attention of the college coach. (Once the credibility of the travel ball coach has been established for the college coach, the need for a high number of such exposure tournaments will diminish). For many families on Ohio travel ball teams, the amount of resources that need to be expended to attend a significant number of such national exposure tournaments is just too much. That's why those who do have the resources often go to established out of state programs where everyone knows that it is going to cost a lot of money and take a lot of time to play.
BTW, nothing that I have said on this thread should be interpreted to say that travel ball players who stay in Ohio won't receive scholarships unless they play for a travel ball coach who has developed an extensive set of pipelines. They can and do receive such scholarships. It's just a matter of having better odds if the player plays for a head coach or a program that has the pipelines. And balanced against that is the question whether the player will see significant PT and/or will be happy playing for the pipeline coach or if there are other team dynamic issues that create an ill fit.
There are no simple answers.
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Their are no simple answers and I am sure alot of coaches do everything that can to help players.
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They will be far more effective if it's their players and they're talking to the coaches where they're playing.
I understood your point and you obviously missed mine. My point was an extension of yours - organizations need to retain people with college connections in the older age groups instead of thinking people can develop them overnight. And, as good as those Laser coaches may be, they still have a ways to go to get to the level of Conroy, Haning, et al.
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Are some of the girls from Championship Fastpitch going to Chicago to play ?
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@SoCal Dad:
No, I don't think I missed your point and I think we are pretty much on the same page. We agree that it takes a long time (and I would guess you would agree a considerable expenditure of tangible and intangible resources) to develop those college coach connections. And I totally understand your point that once they are developed it makes sense for the travel ball coach to continue at the age levels where communications with college coaches can have an important impact on college prospects. My point, which I didn't express very well, is that those Laser coaches are keeping a hand in their older teams and will be commenting on players that they have actually coached. But your approach of having a coordinated "Board of Spokespersons" at the higher level may well be the best approach. And I doubt that the Laser coaches would contest your point that California/Premier and Chicago/Premier folks can get through to more college coaches more easily than anyone in Ohio.
Unless and until an Ohio organization has these kind of contacts, I can't fault really talented players who have the resources for going to these out of state programs. We do agree on that point, right?
No, I don't think I missed your point and I think we are pretty much on the same page. We agree that it takes a long time (and I would guess you would agree a considerable expenditure of tangible and intangible resources) to develop those college coach connections. And I totally understand your point that once they are developed it makes sense for the travel ball coach to continue at the age levels where communications with college coaches can have an important impact on college prospects. My point, which I didn't express very well, is that those Laser coaches are keeping a hand in their older teams and will be commenting on players that they have actually coached. But your approach of having a coordinated "Board of Spokespersons" at the higher level may well be the best approach. And I doubt that the Laser coaches would contest your point that California/Premier and Chicago/Premier folks can get through to more college coaches more easily than anyone in Ohio.
Unless and until an Ohio organization has these kind of contacts, I can't fault really talented players who have the resources for going to these out of state programs. We do agree on that point, right?
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Okay, that sounds a whole lot different than your "overly optimistic ... develop similar pipelines overnight" line.
Board of Spokespersons?
BTW, my suggestion was not geared specifically for those Lasers coaches, it was generic for people like them.Sort of... Ohio also needs to develop a competitive 18 Gold program to keep the top players in Ohio.
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my oldest daughter played 18u gold maddogs for 3 years. we spent 10k to 15k per year. ohio teams can do the same thing that the bandits do. it takes sponsors or dedicated 16 and 17 year old willing to give up their youth. we went to south carolina, nj, pa, missouri, colorado and california.
there are at least 10 ohio girls playing on two bandits teams now. it would make one nice ohio team. it is just that the bandits have sponsors.
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So there are moving to another team in state?
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To my knowledge all of the Championship players except the coaches daughters are looking for teams as we were just formally told yesterday! Coaches daughters however both have new teams but I don't believe either are going with Chicago.
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I never really thought about it like that. Very good point SoCal.
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Now that I think about it, if I had to go back and do it again, I'd do what the top West Coast teams do and I'd just stay at 16-U or 18-U as a coach. Even without playing the whole PGF circuit and all of that, it would at least be helpful within the context of Midwest recruiting.
Before any Ohio coaches get to the level of credibility with the top college coaches, Ohio will need to have a team that is competitive at least at Gold and preferably at PGF. When I would talk to people out west, some have heard of the Lasers (and more now with the Gold's title) and they were mostly hard-pressed to name anyone else from Ohio, despite some success at ASAs by the Doom, Buckeye Heat, Valley Extreme and others.
Ohio simply hasn't had enough of its very top players whose families have been willing to travel the country, as woolfman mentioned above. Or rather, nobody from Ohio has been able to pull it all together and those top players leave for the Bandits or someone else.
Before any Ohio coaches get to the level of credibility with the top college coaches, Ohio will need to have a team that is competitive at least at Gold and preferably at PGF. When I would talk to people out west, some have heard of the Lasers (and more now with the Gold's title) and they were mostly hard-pressed to name anyone else from Ohio, despite some success at ASAs by the Doom, Buckeye Heat, Valley Extreme and others.
Ohio simply hasn't had enough of its very top players whose families have been willing to travel the country, as woolfman mentioned above. Or rather, nobody from Ohio has been able to pull it all together and those top players leave for the Bandits or someone else.
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I think this whole issue of girls leaving the state to play on big name elite teams revolves around how far these girls are willing to go away from home for college and the desire to play a high competitive level of softball while in college.
Let's face it, how many of our daughters are wanting to get more than 1 state away from Ohio? At 13U and 14U, my DD was wanting to go "out west" or down south for college. By the time she finished 16U, she had decided that college softball wasn't going to fit into her college plans and she had narrowed her search to Ohio schools. I would guess that 90% of the girls playing travel ball in Ohio are not wanting to get very far away from home so those teams have to tailor their schedule to get the colleges that the girls are wanting attend and play for.
What I would like to see happen is a 16U and/or 18U team formed solely for girls who want get away from Ohio and have the desire and commitment to play college softball. The Adidas teams (I know they just changed their roster rules) are a good starting point for this since the main tournament is out west and they also have several other regional tournaments.
So, what do ya'll think?
Let's face it, how many of our daughters are wanting to get more than 1 state away from Ohio? At 13U and 14U, my DD was wanting to go "out west" or down south for college. By the time she finished 16U, she had decided that college softball wasn't going to fit into her college plans and she had narrowed her search to Ohio schools. I would guess that 90% of the girls playing travel ball in Ohio are not wanting to get very far away from home so those teams have to tailor their schedule to get the colleges that the girls are wanting attend and play for.
What I would like to see happen is a 16U and/or 18U team formed solely for girls who want get away from Ohio and have the desire and commitment to play college softball. The Adidas teams (I know they just changed their roster rules) are a good starting point for this since the main tournament is out west and they also have several other regional tournaments.
So, what do ya'll think?
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Well tell all those Championship Fastpitch players that want to come to a tryout Thursday in Clayton, Ohio they are more than welcome to attend.
If she is a strong pitcher, she would be welcomed with open arms.
Honestly, we are pretty close to being a very good team. The addition of the right couple girls and we think we could compete with just about anyone.
This year alone, with only one 16 U player, we were able to beat a couple big time programs, including the HOH Explosion, which was ranked number 3 in the OFC's 16U poll. We're at least worth a look....just sayin' :yahoo:
www.montgomerycountyhammers.com
If she is a strong pitcher, she would be welcomed with open arms.
Honestly, we are pretty close to being a very good team. The addition of the right couple girls and we think we could compete with just about anyone.
This year alone, with only one 16 U player, we were able to beat a couple big time programs, including the HOH Explosion, which was ranked number 3 in the OFC's 16U poll. We're at least worth a look....just sayin' :yahoo:
www.montgomerycountyhammers.com
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Well tell all those Championship Fastpitch players that want to come to a tryout Thursday in Clayton, Ohio they are more than welcome to attend.
If she is a strong pitcher, she would be welcomed with open arms.
Honestly, we are pretty close to being a very good team. The addition of the right couple girls and we think we could compete with just about anyone.
This year alone, with only one 16 U player, we were able to beat a couple big time programs, including the HOH Explosion, which was ranked number 3 in the OFC's 16U poll. We're at least worth a look....just sayin' :yahoo:
www.montgomerycountyhammers.com
Rumor is that you already picked one up!
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it is fun to watch the lasers black travel and play premier. how many will still be wanting to do this in two or three years? Slammers had 10 or 11 kids playing like this. they were traveling far and playing up.
it takes a toll on parents and kids at some point.
when are the bandits tryouts anyway?
it takes a toll on parents and kids at some point.
when are the bandits tryouts anyway?
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