Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Re-Plant

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I can't stop myself!!!! (sorry) It's not about the foot drag. It's about getting a second push. My DD used to drag her foot with the laces facing third base. Started developing real foot problems. Fixed the drag and fixed the foot problems. But that has nothing to do with a legal/illegal pitch. However, it's almost impossible to get a second push if the laces are facing home. Additionally, if the laces are facing third when the foot replants, that means the hips are still open, and that allows the pitcher to get a second (illegal) push. With some of these pictures, the pitcher should be closing their hips by the time thay are that far off the mound. Like I said many posts ago, it's not about the feet. It's about the arm in relation to the feet.

 

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Oldguy

A pitcher should not close their hips until the throw hand is at the rear hip. Many pitchers do start to slightly close their hips on the downside of the windmill, but do not fully close until the ball is past the rear hip. Otherwise, the pitcher would have to throw around said hip.

Len

 

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Well sure....when they're DONE dragging. What about mid-drag...where should the shoelaces face at that point according to Hillhouse?

Len

It's kind of hard to explain, but he tells my dd to drag on the top of the inside of the foot. The top 1/5 of the inside of your shoe. Does that make sense? Not sure I'm explaining myself clearly...lol. Then, as you close your hips, you bring the back knee alongside the front knee with laces facing the catcher.

 

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I can't stop myself!!!! (sorry) It's not about the foot drag. It's about getting a second push. My DD used to drag her foot with the laces facing third base. Started developing real foot problems. Fixed the drag and fixed the foot problems. But that has nothing to do with a legal/illegal pitch. However, it's almost impossible to get a second push if the laces are facing home. Additionally, if the laces are facing third when the foot replants, that means the hips are still open, and that allows the pitcher to get a second (illegal) push. With some of these pictures, the pitcher should be closing their hips by the time thay are that far off the mound. Like I said many posts ago, it's not about the feet. It's about the arm in relation to the feet.

Absolutely correct. In those first pictures, there is no way that the pitcher can effectively deliver the ball without replanting her foot.

 

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I agree the hip is open at release with the hand behind the ball. If you close to early 2 things happen. Ball goes way in side or the girls rolls over the ball taken all the speed off the pitch. Who is to say the girl in the picture whos front foot has not landed yet, when that foot lands she keeps dragging through release. This would be legal. I Have been around pitching only 5 years , and i could say what ive seen is hard throwers drag on the side of big toe and fire hip and leg on a sideways path letting arm through then finish. Thats what my 2 daughters have been taught and yes sometimes they get a little bit aggressive and the drag foot ends up flat because they get way off pitching plate , border line legal. It happens to a lot of girls a time or 2. It is tough to be legal on every pitch. Watch college pitchers, not many legal pitches.

 

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Merlion - Good point on the "bananna" drag. I remember DD was taught to bring the foot completely up behind the stride foot at finish. As she got older, that changed a little depending on the pitch, but it still resembled a slightly curved drag mark.

On a side note, my son got to be pretty good at throwing the "ephus" pitch - and he was just fooling around. Slow pitch should allow that pitch just to add some spice to the game. HERE - hit THIS!!!

 

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Well sure....when they're DONE dragging. What about mid-drag...where should the shoelaces face at that point according to Hillhouse?

Len

Pretty much facing towards the 3rd base line.

 

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Pretty much facing towards the 3rd base line.

I agree with this.

Len

 

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It's kind of hard to explain, but he tells my dd to drag on the top of the inside of the foot. The top 1/5 of the inside of your shoe. Does that make sense? Not sure I'm explaining myself clearly...lol. Then, as you close your hips, you bring the back knee alongside the front knee with laces facing the catcher.

Makes perfect sense. If this is the case, the laces of the drag foot would be pointed towards the 3rd base line during mid-drag.....which I believe is correct.

Len

 

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Oldguy

A pitcher should not close their hips until the throw hand is at the rear hip. Many pitchers do start to slightly close their hips on the downside of the windmill, but do not fully close until the ball is past the rear hip. Otherwise, the pitcher would have to throw around said hip.

Len

I understand completely, but in the original picture (which no longer exists) with the arm location where it was, at 11:00 o'clock, and the foot pointed to third base, it is obvious to me that the pitcher is setting up for a pitch, as opposed to finishing a pitch. When the pitcher's arm is at 11:00 o'clock, the back foot should either still be on the rubber or just leaving it, not replanting 3 feet in front of it.

 

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I will start by saying I am not a pitching expert.
This young lady has pitched for me in the summer for 4 years .We have played all over the country at a high level and she has NEVER been called illegal.
I will put more stock in those umpires opinions than those of unnamed forum experts.
What is being lost in this thread is that this is a 16 year old young lady and now she gets to deal with this ****. How would we as adults like 1 picture posted of us, at work where we get paid,on here for all to analyze? If you are infering that she is getting an unfair advantage you are wrong.I couldn't ask for a more honest ,humble and respectful player .
Sometimes I am ashamed to be part of our softball community. This is one of those times.
JP Lasers Scarlet

 

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I understand completely, but in the original picture (which no longer exists) with the arm location where it was, at 11:00 o'clock, and the foot pointed to third base, it is obvious to me that the pitcher is setting up for a pitch, as opposed to finishing a pitch. When the pitcher's arm is at 11:00 o'clock, the back foot should either still be on the rubber or just leaving it, not replanting 3 feet in front of it.

I couldn't disagree more. Watch this Youtube video of Finch and pause it when her arm is at 11:00 o'clock....then tell me if she replants. Also, watch the Cat Osterman video (around 27 second mark)....look at her legs. See if it looks similar compared to the young lady you suggest is replanting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoYUsDK4zTw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbFxWw_mcTQ&feature=fvsr

Len

 

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How would we as adults like 1 picture posted of us, at work where we get paid,on here for all to analyze? If you are infering that she is getting an unfair advantage you are wrong.I couldn't ask for a more honest ,humble and respectful player .
Sometimes I am ashamed to be part of our softball community. This is one of those times.
JP Lasers Scarlet

That is why I went ahead and posted the other pictures, because one picture doesn't necessarily tell the whole story. None of the other pictures show anything looking illegal. The one still shot cannot conclusively indicate it was a replant.

 

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This thread shows that no matter how much we discuss it, when at the ballpark and the ump calls the pitcher for a re-plant, half of us will be saying "its about time" and the other half will be saying "what the heck are you lookin at?"

 

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Unfortunately, I don't think half of the umps know what a re-plant is to begin with.

 

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Unfortunately, I don't think half of the umps know what a re-plant is to begin with.

Amen to that. Brought it up at an umpire meeting, you would have thought I was talking about micro biology in latin.

 

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Was this a real game or scrimmage? I notice there is no chalk for the pitcher's circle or third base line.

 

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While we're in the critique mode, also notice that she doesn't start her motion with both feet contacting the rubber. Or she did, then stepped back - another non-no. *This is not a personal attack on the pitcher. We've all seen plenty of others just like her.**

 

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While we're in the critique mode, also notice that she doesn't start her motion with both feet contacting the rubber. Or she did, then stepped back - another non-no. *This is not a personal attack on the pitcher. We've all seen plenty of others just like her.**

HS allows the stride foot to be behind the rubber not touching it.

 

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You're right. However, since ASA doesn't allow it, the pitcher should incorporate "both feet on the plate" into her motion, so that she doesn't have to change styles between HS and Tournament Ball games.