Scoring Question

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Pitcher A starts the game and throws 4 complete innings. Leaves with a 3-1 lead. Pitcher B pitches the last 3 innings with the final score 6-4.

Does A get the win and B gets the save? Or B gets the win?

If A, is it because she had the lead when she left?
If B, would it be because the other team scored more runs than A's team had at the time A left the game?

Or is it because A threw more innings?

Inquiring minds want to know...

 

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Sally ... it depends. After Pitcher A left the game, did the other team actually ever tie or take the lead in the game? If that happened, then Pitcher B becomes the pitcher of record and gets the win because she was the pitcher when the runs scored that put them ahead for good. Otherwise Pitcher A did pitch enough innings and would get the win, and Pitcher B would get the save.

 

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Well.....we need a little more info.

Did the opposing team ever take the lead after the starter left the game?

If no, then Pitcher A gets the win and Pitcher B gets the save.

If yes, then Pitcher B gets the win.

From the NFHS Ruke Book:

ART. 6 . . . Winning and losing pitchers are determined as follows:

a. The starting pitcher is credited with a win in the following circumstances:

1. When she pitches at least half of the innings in the game and her team stays ahead for the remainder of the game.
2. When she pitches the required number of innings, her team is ahead or tied when she is replaced, she re-enters the game with her team behind, and her team subsequently recaptures the lead.
NOTE: A pitcher cannot receive credit for a save if she receives the win.

b. The relief pitcher is credited with a win in the following circumstances:

1. The starting pitcher did not pitch the required number of innings, or her team fell behind.
2. The relief pitcher who pitches most effectively after the starting pitcher did not pitch the required number of innings, more than one relief pitcher was used and the lead was never lost.
3. The relief pitcher was the pitcher of record when her team gained the lead and stayed in the lead.
4. A relief pitcher left the pitching position while the score was tied or her team was behind, and she re-entered as the pitcher and regained the lead.

c. If a pitcher is replaced by a pinch hitter or a pinch runner, the runs scored by the team during the inning of removal are to be credited to that pitcher’s benefit for deciding the pitcher of record when the team takes the lead.

d. A pitcher shall be charged with the loss when the team is behind or falls behind because of runs assessed to that pitcher and the team does not subsequently tie the score nor take the lead.

e. A pitcher cannot be given credit for pitching a shutout if the pitcher does not pitch the complete game, unless the player enters the game with no one out before the opponents have scored in the first inning and she does not permit the opposition to score during the game.

ART. 7 . . . In order for a pitcher to be credited with a save, she shall meet all three of the following criteria:
a. she is the last pitcher in a game won by her team; and
b. she is not the winning pitcher; and
c. she meets at least one of the following:

1. she enters the game with a lead of not more than three runs and pitches at least one inning; or
2. she enters the game, regardless of the count on the batter, with the potential tying run either on base, at bat or on deck; or
3. she pitches effectively for at least three innings.

NOTE: A starting pitcher who is replaced and then re-enters as pitcher can be credited
with a win but not a save.

 

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Coachjwb, you type faster than me.

 

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A & B's team never relinquished the lead.

 

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Then A gets the win and B gets the save.

 

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Sally may be hearing the rumor that the starter has to pitch 5 innings to get the win. That is absolutely true - in baseball.

The starter has to pitch the MAJORITY of innings (in softball, 4 of 7) and meet the other criteria to get the win. In baseball, that would be 5 of 9.

 

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In the case described, I would think there are only these three points to consider for the winning pitcher:

1) Which team was winning when the starting pitcher was relieved? (hers)
2) How many innings did the starter pitch? (4)
3) Who won the game? (her team)

All the above qualify the starter for the win. As I understand it, it does not matter how the score changes during the game, but rather what the score is at the relief point and at the end of the game.

The reliever would get a save, because her performance satisfies all the required points in Article 7.

 

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Sammy ... it definitely does matter how the score changes. If the other team catches up or takes the lead after she comes out of the game (on runs that were not her responsibility), then the starting is no longer the pitcher of record. The winning pitcher is then the relief pitcher at the time her team took the lead for good.

 

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The required number of innings for starting pitcher varies a little by rule set / guide:
- ASA requires 4 in a 7 inning game and 3 for 5-6 innings.
- NFHS is half the innings (see Art 6.a.1 in wvanalmsick's post).
- ATEC is majority (i.e. 3 of 5 and 4 of 6-7).

@Sammy: coachjwb is right. Here are some references that back it up.
- NFHS Article 6.a.1 states and her team stays ahead for the remainder of the game
- ATEC 5. No pitcher can receive credit for a win if the score becomes tied or her team falls behind after she leaves the game, unless she comes back in and regains the lead.

 

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But coach, wouldn't those runners just affect the starting pitcher's ERA, and not the win/loss status - provided her team ultimately won the game? Of course, I've never claimed to be the greatest at scoring . I think the following (Item B.1 under relief pitcher) confused me:

1. The starting pitcher did not pitch the required number of innings, or her team fell behind.

I'm assuming at this point, "fell behind" means that if runners left on base actually score after the relief pitcher enters, not only do they get credited to the starting pitcher's ERA, they also effectively cause her team to fall behind - if only temporarily - until her team ultimately rallies for the win.

++ Thanks SoCal - makes perfect sense now...

Proudly saying I learned something today!

 

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I did too about the hits to the outfield where there's an out but not a force at the next base (though that doesn't happen often)