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What's a softball swing?
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there are two swings in my opinion
"SLOW PITCH"
and
"FAST PITCH" (whether you call it baseball or softball is up to you!!!)
"SLOW PITCH"
and
"FAST PITCH" (whether you call it baseball or softball is up to you!!!)
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bigtrain-
in mine and my coaches opinion, a softball swing is a big long loopy swing where your arms are fully extended at point of contact. This swing is usually used for slow pitch softball. Yet, when they move up to fastpitch, thats the only swing they know, and girls usually can't hit the faster pitchers other than a few groundouts.
in mine and my coaches opinion, a softball swing is a big long loopy swing where your arms are fully extended at point of contact. This swing is usually used for slow pitch softball. Yet, when they move up to fastpitch, thats the only swing they know, and girls usually can't hit the faster pitchers other than a few groundouts.
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I would request that this not turn into an argument, I am really just looking for comments, but wouldn't most of the same things that constitute a good fast pitch swing, be the same for slow pitch? Bat speed, contact point, hip rotation etc. It has been years since I played any slow pitch, and it was a local church league, so I won't pretend to know that much about it. It would just seem to me, that other then adjustments for the angle of the ball, you would generate power from the same sources.
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That's a good question, DogsDad.
While many of the points between a slow pitch and fastpitch swing are alike, there is one huge difference.
For slow pitch, you have an almost zero chance of being fooled by a pitch. The ball is moving about 30 mph which gives the slow pitch hitter tons more time to load up before initiating a swing. At the top levels of competetive slow pitch, you will see some pretty odd batting mechanics: unusual grips, extreme counter rotation when loading and even guys that run up a few steps in the batters box before swinging.
In slow pitch, bat speed is king. The highest levels of men's slow pitch will generate bat speeds around 110-120 mph.
In contrast, professional MLB players will generate about 85-90 mph top bat speeds and fastpitch players about 75-80 mph.
They are sacrificing maximum bat speed for bat QUICKNESS, which is the time it takes to get the bat from the load point to contact. Sure, the fastpitch players could counter rotate their torsos more, or use any number of techniques that would increase bat speed, but the trade-off is a reduced bat quickness.
While most of the mechanics between slow and fastpitch are about the same, it is the need for bat quickness in fastpitch that sets them apart. With the fraction of a second that the hitter has to make a decision, bat quickness is essential. So much so that the top fastpitch- and baseball- players will give up a little bat speed to acheive greater bat quickness.
While many of the points between a slow pitch and fastpitch swing are alike, there is one huge difference.
For slow pitch, you have an almost zero chance of being fooled by a pitch. The ball is moving about 30 mph which gives the slow pitch hitter tons more time to load up before initiating a swing. At the top levels of competetive slow pitch, you will see some pretty odd batting mechanics: unusual grips, extreme counter rotation when loading and even guys that run up a few steps in the batters box before swinging.
In slow pitch, bat speed is king. The highest levels of men's slow pitch will generate bat speeds around 110-120 mph.
In contrast, professional MLB players will generate about 85-90 mph top bat speeds and fastpitch players about 75-80 mph.
They are sacrificing maximum bat speed for bat QUICKNESS, which is the time it takes to get the bat from the load point to contact. Sure, the fastpitch players could counter rotate their torsos more, or use any number of techniques that would increase bat speed, but the trade-off is a reduced bat quickness.
While most of the mechanics between slow and fastpitch are about the same, it is the need for bat quickness in fastpitch that sets them apart. With the fraction of a second that the hitter has to make a decision, bat quickness is essential. So much so that the top fastpitch- and baseball- players will give up a little bat speed to acheive greater bat quickness.
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Bretman,
I see your point, and the one glaringly obvious thing that I didn't take into account is even slow pitch players that are below average, seldom worry about striking out.
I understand your point about quickness, but wonder if the reason we sacrifice bat speed is to be quicker, or is it for better bat control? I maybe am only talking about a difference in semantics, not sure. As I said earlier, I have never had anything to do with the slow pitch game on the higher levels, and I believe you when you say you have seen these strange gyrations etc. but the loopy swing that was talked about as being a slow pitch swing would not seem to me to be as a effective, or generate as much bat speed as a baseball/fastpitch swing.
I see your point, and the one glaringly obvious thing that I didn't take into account is even slow pitch players that are below average, seldom worry about striking out.
I understand your point about quickness, but wonder if the reason we sacrifice bat speed is to be quicker, or is it for better bat control? I maybe am only talking about a difference in semantics, not sure. As I said earlier, I have never had anything to do with the slow pitch game on the higher levels, and I believe you when you say you have seen these strange gyrations etc. but the loopy swing that was talked about as being a slow pitch swing would not seem to me to be as a effective, or generate as much bat speed as a baseball/fastpitch swing.
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Spinball,
Glen McCoy is from the Akron area, he has been working out of Pronio Sports. I know he has been doing some clinics lately and has been hard to see!
He's good at returning calls, try giving him a ring. His phone is 330 784-6397.
Glen McCoy is from the Akron area, he has been working out of Pronio Sports. I know he has been doing some clinics lately and has been hard to see!
He's good at returning calls, try giving him a ring. His phone is 330 784-6397.
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DogsDad,
My personal view would be that the "long, loopy" swing with the arms fully extended would be a bad mechanic for either slow or fastpitch softball.
I'm not sure how someone came to associate that type of swing with slow pitch, but it isn't the kind of swing I have seen used with much success in my years of playing and umpiring slow pitch.
I wouldn't call that a slow pitch swing as much as I would call it a bad swing! Fully extending the arms at contact is generally refered to as "casting the hands" and is something to be avoided. The longer swing with the hands extended far from the body will result in slower bat speed and less power.
What the slow pitch player can do to increase total bat speed is employ more torso "reverse turn" when loading up and have more "bat lag"- that is, keep the hands back longer once the hip turn is initiated.
While both of these might generate a higher bat speed, which is needed to launch a slow moving ball a great distance, they also will lengthen the time from load to contact (bat quickness) which can be a deadly flaw to the fastpitch player.
My personal view would be that the "long, loopy" swing with the arms fully extended would be a bad mechanic for either slow or fastpitch softball.
I'm not sure how someone came to associate that type of swing with slow pitch, but it isn't the kind of swing I have seen used with much success in my years of playing and umpiring slow pitch.
I wouldn't call that a slow pitch swing as much as I would call it a bad swing! Fully extending the arms at contact is generally refered to as "casting the hands" and is something to be avoided. The longer swing with the hands extended far from the body will result in slower bat speed and less power.
What the slow pitch player can do to increase total bat speed is employ more torso "reverse turn" when loading up and have more "bat lag"- that is, keep the hands back longer once the hip turn is initiated.
While both of these might generate a higher bat speed, which is needed to launch a slow moving ball a great distance, they also will lengthen the time from load to contact (bat quickness) which can be a deadly flaw to the fastpitch player.
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Where's the big train...JUMP IN & CHECK THESE FOLKS. Share some tidbits of your years of expierence, and infinite wisdom. Are the presses broke down @ the mill or are you sleeping?
C'mon Master..... teach the lil' grasshoppers!
C'mon Master..... teach the lil' grasshoppers!
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Hitting Revisited
Looking back through the archives I stumbled across this old gem. ?There is some great info posted about swing mechanics throughout the 4 pages, so enjoy.....
Looking back through the archives I stumbled across this old gem. ?There is some great info posted about swing mechanics throughout the 4 pages, so enjoy.....
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bcat,
i noticed what you wrote about fastpitch being played by men who were baseball players first...and i thought i wasn't the only one...
living in Texas, we were raised on men's fastpitch, it's what we did all summer, and if you asked all the "weekend warriors" they either played college ball or even AAA ball (one of the opposing shortstops on a rival team was lauded as being from the "Cubs" organization)..my dad included.
but, i also noticed that to be able to "catch up" to those swings, many of the better hitters, went from less of a stride or kick like the major leaguers to more of a widened stance, quicker hands, but still rotating the hips for that burst of power. I also remember alot of "flipping the wrist" talk in the dugout
bretman,
wow, an ump who also knows his swing...very cool
my dd's hitting coach (a college player who devotes her summers to her dad's 10u team) is all about the term "box" and that she was extending her arms in the zone...she's getting somewhat better (ie, more confident) but i cant help to think, if only we had played sooner..poor girl, 2nd year travel, first year 14's AND go from switch hitting to an only left-handed approach this year!
I'm actually with bigtrain on this on (yes, i said WITH bigtrain) in that it takes 7,000 to 10,000 swings for muscle memory...so whatever method/approach everyone's DD does have, dont take days off during the week or even in the offseason if you truly want to improve
..or become those weekend warriors (thank god my dad didn't play winter ball or my mom would have divorced him years sooner!)
this was a great thread, btw!
i noticed what you wrote about fastpitch being played by men who were baseball players first...and i thought i wasn't the only one...
living in Texas, we were raised on men's fastpitch, it's what we did all summer, and if you asked all the "weekend warriors" they either played college ball or even AAA ball (one of the opposing shortstops on a rival team was lauded as being from the "Cubs" organization)..my dad included.
but, i also noticed that to be able to "catch up" to those swings, many of the better hitters, went from less of a stride or kick like the major leaguers to more of a widened stance, quicker hands, but still rotating the hips for that burst of power. I also remember alot of "flipping the wrist" talk in the dugout
bretman,
wow, an ump who also knows his swing...very cool
my dd's hitting coach (a college player who devotes her summers to her dad's 10u team) is all about the term "box" and that she was extending her arms in the zone...she's getting somewhat better (ie, more confident) but i cant help to think, if only we had played sooner..poor girl, 2nd year travel, first year 14's AND go from switch hitting to an only left-handed approach this year!
I'm actually with bigtrain on this on (yes, i said WITH bigtrain) in that it takes 7,000 to 10,000 swings for muscle memory...so whatever method/approach everyone's DD does have, dont take days off during the week or even in the offseason if you truly want to improve
..or become those weekend warriors (thank god my dad didn't play winter ball or my mom would have divorced him years sooner!)
this was a great thread, btw!
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Knights - this is indeed a gem, and a very good discussion of old school vs "enlightened" hitting skills using great new technology that wasn't available until recently.
After reading bretman's posts, I have to say that here is someone who "gets it" about hitting. I agree with all your past posts, bret. I invested in RightView Pro last year, and combined with Englishbey's stuff I also purchased, the results are simply incredible. I just got tired of listening to what I knew was bad advice. I'll be the first to say that I have only scratched the surface with understanding the complexities of hitting. I learn something new every day.
There are NO SHORTCUTS. As a matter of fact, it's more work than most kids have ever seen. The difference is that it's SMART work, not just repeating the same bad swings. I use Englishbey's principles combined with the video analysis technology of RightView. They work great together as companion products. The pro clips that come with RightView show WHAT the batter does, and Englishbey's video explains in exhausting detail HOW they accomplish those mechanics - and why.
The missing link in these products is the "vision aspect" - seeing the ball, knowing what pitch to expect, and recognizing a pitch that is breaking away from your hitting zone. There are professional seminars using numbered and colored tennis balls that address this, but to my knowledge they are very expensive. Does anyone have knowledge of a "consumer" version of this?
Also, the (very important) mental aspect was mentioned earlier. If anyone could list the specific book or video, etc., that covers that, it would be greatly appreciated.
My advice to anyone wanting to provide their kid a better opportunity for hitting success is to get on the bandwagon of today's teaching. But the results will only be as good as the effort you put into it.
After reading bretman's posts, I have to say that here is someone who "gets it" about hitting. I agree with all your past posts, bret. I invested in RightView Pro last year, and combined with Englishbey's stuff I also purchased, the results are simply incredible. I just got tired of listening to what I knew was bad advice. I'll be the first to say that I have only scratched the surface with understanding the complexities of hitting. I learn something new every day.
There are NO SHORTCUTS. As a matter of fact, it's more work than most kids have ever seen. The difference is that it's SMART work, not just repeating the same bad swings. I use Englishbey's principles combined with the video analysis technology of RightView. They work great together as companion products. The pro clips that come with RightView show WHAT the batter does, and Englishbey's video explains in exhausting detail HOW they accomplish those mechanics - and why.
The missing link in these products is the "vision aspect" - seeing the ball, knowing what pitch to expect, and recognizing a pitch that is breaking away from your hitting zone. There are professional seminars using numbered and colored tennis balls that address this, but to my knowledge they are very expensive. Does anyone have knowledge of a "consumer" version of this?
Also, the (very important) mental aspect was mentioned earlier. If anyone could list the specific book or video, etc., that covers that, it would be greatly appreciated.
My advice to anyone wanting to provide their kid a better opportunity for hitting success is to get on the bandwagon of today's teaching. But the results will only be as good as the effort you put into it.
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We haven't had a good hitting thread for awhile. This thread is almost two years old! Thanks for dragging this one up.
When I'm not umpiring, I still play on a men's fastpitch team. That's why I've tried to keep up with some of the latest swing technology out there. Hitting has always been a hobby of mine, so I have books and tapes strectching back about 25 years. It is amazing to see how things have changed in that span of time!
When I'm not umpiring, I still play on a men's fastpitch team. That's why I've tried to keep up with some of the latest swing technology out there. Hitting has always been a hobby of mine, so I have books and tapes strectching back about 25 years. It is amazing to see how things have changed in that span of time!
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it's funny, bretman, down in Houston, you could find a mens fastpitch game going on most weekends and weeknights, you just had to know where to look...i was curious, and they are now more ladies fastpitch being sponsored than ever before (yahoo!)....if my stomach werent so big, i'd be there taking my hacks and trying not to wreck my knees!
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Glen McCoy is working out of Pinnacle Sports, located on Route 18 in the Akron area. I can't say enough good things about him, as a hitting instructor and as an all around good man.
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Dido Silver 7, both my daughters work with Coach McCoy, his coaching skills are some of the best. After a couple of swings he usually can pick out what they are doing wrong and will give them the drills to work on. 2 weeks ago we went in to Pinnacle with my oldest daughter ready to quit the game, slumps will do that to the confidence. We had not seen Coach McCoy since one of his tune up classes (about 7 weeks). Well to make a long story short that weekend my daughter did not just break out of a slump but exploded over the fences. She went 9 for 13, 2 home runs and 3 doubles she is much easier to live with!!!!!. We are believers! We tried to get in last week to see him but I believe he was out of town, we say do not share his skills with others! Just kidding.
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