Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Stress on Pitcher's Arm

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Here's an interesting article I saw in today's paper:


Windmill Pitch is Stress for Arm

Softball pitchers may not throw 90-mph brush-back pitches, but that does not mean their arms are free of stress.

A new study says the windmill delivery used in fast-pitch softball places more force on a pitcher's biceps than an overhand throw. The report, which appears in the American Journal of Sports Medicine, said the demands of the pitch led to shoulder and other injuries. The lead author is Idubijes L. Rojas of Rush University Medical Center in Chicago.

Fast-pitch softball, the study noted, is highly popular among girls and women, with an estimated two and a half million taking part in it a year. "The conventional belief in softball has been that the underhand throwing motion places little stress on the arm," the researchers wrote.

Much of the problem seems to come after the ball is released, said a co-author of the study, Dr. Nikhil N. Verma of Rush University. As the arm decelerates, tremendous stress is put on the biceps. Moreover, unlike baseball pitchers, softball pitchers generally are not limited in the number of innings they can play, the study said.

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This is a link to the abstract of the article in the AJSM
http://ajs.sagepub.com/content/37/3/558.abstract?sid=1d47502d-4434-4124-b2e5-7c719d52a020

 

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Welcome Back Kat......

 

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Welcome Back Kat......

Thanks.

 

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Thanks for being back, Kat.

Studies have also found: Running--especially fast running in circles-- is bad for the knees and ankles of girls and women. Also bad for their wrists and elbows is the repetitive swinging of a bat. Also not recommended for their eyes is the constant staring at a particular spot (as in the hip area of another girl or young woman some forty feet away). Sliding into fixed objects is terrible for the legs and back.

All of these things can lead to injury or some form of discomfort. What we doctors would like to see are generations of people who have reached the age of 100, and one day find themselves dying--- of NOTHING.

 

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Wow! I would never guess that it is the bicep being stressed. Definitely food for thought.....

btw Kat...love the new avatar!

 

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Wow! I would never guess that it is the bicep being stressed. Definitely food for thought.....

I know! It surprised me, too.

(And thanks )

 

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Here is a link to the article:

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2009-03/rumc-aow032409.php

And as a bonus, a few other windmill motion studies:

http://www.momentummedia.com/articles/cm/cm0907/pitch.htm
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=2646989&blobtype=pdf
http://www.chiroweb.com/mpacms/dc/article.php?id=38688

 

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Ok, so instead of stating things constructive and continue to stick our heads in the sand, lets keep saying girls can throw all day long without affecting them...

Bring on pitching limits.... Even when the talk starts on it, it will take up to two years to get it passed.

 

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dd went to a clinic this winter and was doing the west coast style, either the style or something, but she left with a knot in her bicep and we disregarded everything she learned from that clinic. dd took 2 weeks off and hasn't had any discomfort since, and went back to the east coast motion with full follow through of the arm and not figure fouring the leg.

 

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There are tremendously compelling arguments for inning limits for pitchers that have nothing to do with health, but would certainly have a positive effect:

1. Inning limits would force teams that have one dominant pitcher to try to win games
through hitting and defense (remember those?). "Is your 12U shortstop any good?"
"I don't know. Nobody's hit her a grounder all summer. Our pitcher strikes out
19 batters a game."

2. Inning limits would eliminate hard feelings between number two (and number 3) pitchers
and their coaches.

3. Inning limits would allow the number 2 and 3 pitchers to get the work they need to
develop.

4. Inning limits would create a healthy competition between pitchers and also
strengthen team unity and eliminate favoritism since the coach will have to use several pitchers.

5. Inning limits would force coaches to exercise their brains (they've been dealing with limits
in Little League forever). The exercise would relieve boredom, and would likely result in fewer needless and foolish moves by coaches during games-- like calling for a suicide squeeze with runners at 2nd and 3rd and nobody out in the first inning with the number 3 hitter up.

6. Inning limits would allow number 1 pitchers to play other positions more often, so
they can develop those skills in case some other number 1 pitcher is better when all
the number 1's come together in college.

Quite frankly, I'm shocked that these and other arguments for inning limits have not reached the tournament directors, coaches and other softball officials who allegedly have
the "best interests of the girls" in mind.

 

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Excellent post, truth.

 

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Gotta say that thetruth08 speaketh the truth here. Parents need to gather the courage to take charge of their kid's health, and do it for the RIGHT reasons.

Softball pitching limits? That's a mixed bag, but genetics and mechanics are in control here. Some girls can throw maybe 90 pitches and have soreness in the elbow and shoulder, while others can throw two 100 pitch games in a row, and maybe have a little soreness in the forearm. I'd like to see a baseball pitcher throw over 100 pitches consistently. Can you say Tommy Johns?

I'm also not 100% convinced that some of these "medical studies" don't have hidden agendas. I'm not at all saying the doctors are lying, or even stretching the truth, but when research money is available, studies seem to become a little more interesting.

Hey! Welcome back to the fray, KAT!

 

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Thanks Sammy---and might I mention we've been missing your sage advice for some time. Welcome back to you, too.

 

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truth
Could you possibly pm me a way to contact you. I have a couple of thoughts on this subject and would like your opinion. I agree with many of the things you have posted here.
Thanks

 

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I would like to see a new study with more than seven athletes on this. Also, How often were these athletes practicing or pitching in games? There is such a wide variety of different training methods and how much pitchers throw during practice/games/tournaments. I know old school theory was throw a lot, I had always heard of pitchers throwing 300 balls per day and throwing everyday (even in the off season). Now, I see and hear of more kids throwing less reps. I tend to feel this is better overall for the pitcher, and they hopefully become a more well rounded softball player. My dd is a 2nd year pitcher (12u), at first I had her throw quite bit, I have since backed off that for a couple of reasons. I am finding there are a lot more kids learning how to pitch, the school she will feed into has a lot of pitchers rising up through the ranks, my reaction to that is to teach her to become a well rounded player who can play outfield/infield. Increasingly, I see less and less of that "dominant" pitcher getting all the reps and I see some of the best programs throwing several pitchers in a tournament. Many high schools are even splitting time amongst pitchers, although I know it is not the norm. Bishop Ready for example, has two quality pitchers (who play infield when they are not pitching). Why? Because more kids are learning how to pitch. There are many more pitching coaches offering there services, so we are seeing more formal training. I am continually amazed at how many kids in our area are going to pitching coaches to learn how to pitch. This will have a natural effect on how much kids pitch, although I do realize that there will always be programs that throw one pitcher all the time in high school (I understand some high schools don't have the luxury of having a "stable" of pitching talent). I do believe the philosophy in travel ball is changing, which in turn will take a lot of physical stress off of pitchers. My daughter is on a team whose coach has the philosophy of cross training his players to play multiple postions (thankfully), I know not all coaches practice this. I do understand the potential need for inning limits, whether studies show it or not, we all know the stress involved with pitching.

 

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Last year I started a fall league. I put in place an inning restriction on pitchers. Each team played a double header each week (2 six inning games). A pitcher was allowed 6 innings per double header. This was done mainly to develope other pitchers. My daughter is a pitcher, and I have seen teams go to tournaments with just one pitcher. It is a lot for one pitcher to carry a team for a whole tournament. By the end they are toast, and if you are facing a team who has a couple of pitchers where the #1 was able to rest... advantage opponent! Stress on the pitchers could be reduced by coaches having more than 1 pitcher. JMHO on tournament teams with multiple games in a day. High School would be different (less stress on pitchers).

 

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Since many teams do not have enough pitchers, the amount of teams would shrink, because you couldn't form a new team because you had one good pitcher. You would need at least 3 to have a team in travel ball. 2 in high school.

 

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Anybody else fascinated with the direction this thread is headed?

A discussion of the merits of inning limits is a much juicier topic and one I don't recall having seen too much of here, before.

 

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It is an interesting concept and one that the softball world will not embrace because for years the philosophy has been..."pitching underhand cannot hurt the shoulder". Well, no one took into account the rate the female body grows. Joints do not grow at the same rate as the tendons. This causes problems in a variety of areas if the female athlete is not doing the conditioning required to support the stress of the activity. The repetition of the pitching motion is a stressful activity.

 

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Doctors - lie?

DD is one of those pitchers whose arm doesn't seem to break down - her pitching coach says her form is excellent.

I wouldn't be opposed to limits, but the restrictions that are on baseball are too severe. Think in terms of games - not innings, and limit the games pitched per week. Let's say a max of 4 games, which means you need a second pitcher to throw 2 games. It also allows you to go into tournament play and throw your best every game.

I think pitching limits would make the whole situation of players moving between schools worse. Now the incentive to for a girl to move to a school where she can be a second pitcher (or split the week's games 3 and 3) becomes stronger. This whole situation right now is a big joke, with private schools getting a free pass to bring players into their program. Now the need for a strong second pitcher will make this even more important.