Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Stress on Pitcher's Arm

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The topic of pitch counts came up on another site that I frequent. The links I posted earlier is some of the research I looked up for the topic. If it is agreed that the windmill motion, while easier on the body than the baseball pitching motion, still causes long-term repetitive use injuries, what is a reasonable limit to put on pitching?

Here is the ASMI recommendation for baseball:

http://www.asmi.org/asmiweb/usabaseball.htm

 

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As far as the study goes... After I pitch many buckets of whiffle balls, or many buckets of dimple balls simulating a pitching motion while feeding the machine, I wake up the next day with soreness in my bicep. My wife thinks i'm weak (although she doesn't say it that pc);&. My dd (the real pitcher in the family) will feel soreness occasionally in her trapezius muscle after a heavy pitch count day. She seems to do ok with 2 games (13-14 innings) in a day. Soreness will be there the next day if she goes beyond that. How many pitchers will ice regularly after they pitch. Was thinking about getting one of those pitchers shoulder wraps with the ice packs. I'm sure you wouldn't want to ice if you pitched a game and were scheduled to start again in say... 2-3 hours. Let's say a 20 min ice down at the end of the day?? Thoughts??

 

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My dd is a freshman who has been pitching travel ball since 11U(3 summers). It was not uncommon for her to pitch 5-6 games/weekend. One weekend she pitched 3 back to back games. This was after pitching every night during the week and sometimes pitching batting practice for her team. Her arm never hurt so we just kept pushing the limit. Her FORMER pitching coach said "if it doesn't hurt don't worry about it" and also said she should never need to ice. There was never any talk of stretching before throwing.

This past winter her arm hit a brick wall. She couldn't even throw a ball overhand or bat. It was quite a scare to think she may not even be able to be a postion player.

After many visits to an Orthopedic Sports MD and 3 days/week of therapy, she finally pitched her 1st varsity game this past weekend. She did okay(won the game) but I realized she may never be the pitcher she could have been.

Parents-these girls are young with growing muscles. Learn what stretches to do and how to ice. Trust your instincts!

 

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This past winter her arm hit a brick wall. She couldn't even throw a ball overhand or bat. It was quite a scare to think she may not even be able to be a postion player.

Thank you for the cautionary tale. Were there any warning signs leading up to the injury?

 

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She started complaining that her shoulder would 'pop' sometimes but didn't hurt a few months before the injury. It wasn't until her first time of lifting weights at conditioning that the pain started.

 

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Since many teams do not have enough pitchers, the amount of teams would shrink, because you couldn't form a new team because you had one good pitcher. You would need at least 3 to have a team in travel ball. 2 in high school.

this might not be so bad.

 

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It sure would balance the playing field. Many have one dominate pitcher that throw almost every inning.. In travel ball it sure would make a difference on Sunday. Coaches would have to coach on who do I pitch first,second, third. .

 

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It sure would balance the playing field. Many have one dominate pitcher that throw almost every inning.. In travel ball it sure would make a difference on Sunday. Coaches would have to coach on who do I pitch first,second, third. .

Would definitely change the whole dynamic of the game.

Hmmm...interesting to puzzle over.

 

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Let the fun begin!!!! Then the 'weakest fielder' post might get even more interesting....hah

 

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let the fun begin!!!! Then the 'weakest fielder' post might get even more interesting....hah

LOL!!! You do like to rip it up, dontcha?!?

 

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I had a feeling Les was going to go there. But he is right, some pitchers are not very good at fielding a ball. So you bunt them to death.

 

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I firmly believe that there should be some form of limits on young pitchers. I also believe that a proper windmill and release will cause much less pain, fatigue, and injury. The best windmill for the shoulder is a windmill where the pitchers hips are perpendicular to the catcher's hips. This is called the "open" position. Closing the hips the least little bit before release creates an improper windmill angle, causing the above mentioned fatigue, pain, and possibly injury. The hips should begin to close once the hand just passes the hips, and ultimately end up fully closed. As far as bicep, tricep, elbow, forearm, and wrist issues, the arm (during the windmill and through finish) should be as relaxed as possible. Any tension or contraction anywhere in the arm while pitching is unfavorable. Stay long and loose.

Len

 

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Len you sound like Hillhouse. You are 100 % correct, I see the problem with young kids not ready to throw a pitch like a Snapover Drop, being taught that by pitching coaches and not knowing how to throw the pitch correctly. You can read posts on here about kids 12U and under throwing all these different pitches. Everything you read says don't do it , because the arm is not ready to handle the stress at that young age..

 

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It would make things interesting. When I set up the fall league with pitching restrictions, I was hopeing for #1's vs #1's for the most part, but everyone just played for a split. The league ended in a 5 way tie going into the last week. It was quite commical.

 

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Len you sound like Hillhouse. You are 100 % correct, I see the problem with young kids not ready to throw a pitch like a Snapover Drop, being taught that by pitching coaches and not knowing how to throw the pitch correctly. You can read posts on her about kids 12U and under throwing all these different pitches. Everything you read says don't do it , because the arm is not ready to handle the stress at that young age..

Thanks SB. I've heard the name but I've never read or watched anything from him. When my dd was taking pitching lessons, it was Chip Gregg that really focused on arm and shoulder health. His #1 priority was proper windmill and release. He showed me the proper windmill technique, and made me feel the difference by having me replicate different deliveries.

Len

 

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http://www.houseofpitching.com/ Len here is Bill's web site. He has many that follow his teachings.

 

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Len and SB you are dead on. My DD, U10, was at 3 Hillhouse clinics this past winter up in Dayton. He says that girls today try to do TOO much too quickly. Wanting to learn every pitch when there bodies are not ready for it. He believes in 3 pitches: drop, rise and change. All three change planes and can keep a hitter off balance. If he saw some of the girls I have seen throwing a flip change, he would flip. Girls under U14 doing it is not advised. Len if you check out the link you will love what he has to say. I learned a ton from him. The biggest thing he preaches is CORRECT MECHANICS! If you do not have a sound foundation of mechanics, your arm will have issues sooner or later. No matter what you try.

 

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Since many teams do not have enough pitchers, the amount of teams would shrink, because you couldn't form a new team because you had one good pitcher. You would need at least 3 to have a team in travel ball. 2 in high school.

I know a H.S. Softball team that I have umpired this year has only 1 Pitcher, no relief coming to take over for her. But of course the parents enjoying their "DD"s being in spot-light for the duration.

I can't say nothin', I'm just the Ump!


FASTPITCH! Anything else, And you're playing to SLOW!

 

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http://www.houseofpitching.com/ Len here is Bill's web site. He has many that follow his teachings.

Thanks for the link SB.

Len

 

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I agree with Len. Just as with hitting, there are timing issues with pitching. As Len said, keeping the hips perpendicular (body facing 3rd for a RH pitcher), and CLOSING AT THE PROPER MOMENT.

Close too early and the hand can't clear the hip - or might even hit the hip. Some kids (improperly) cheat and swing the arm wide when attempting to throw a turnover drop or curve. This puts a ton of stress on the shoulder, because that joint is simply not designed to rotate that way. Talk to a Physical Therapist about how the arm socket works with the shoulder.

In addition to what I mentioned above, there are many more small timing/mechanics details in the pitching motion that only a trained eye would detect. Lots of times, it's the compounding of minor timing/mechanical errors that eventually leads to pain and injury.

Be sure your DD is being PROPERLY trained by a qualified instuctor.