What do you tell your team

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Playing in a semi final rec tournament game. I am playing the appointed TD team, on the TD home field. The umpires don't show up so the TD call 2 umpires who can get to the fields in 10 minutes. The game starts off pretty fair, my DD strikes the first three batters out at the bottom of the first. It is apparent that my DD is a more advanced pitcher after the 1st inning(I am not taking anything away from the other pitcher, its her 1st year of pitching) We go into the second inning and the strike zone completely changes. TD team has shoulders to knees and whole plate, my DD gets chest to waist (not kidding) and no corners. My DD is a placement pitcher so obviously this is not a very good situtation for her. The TD first base coach at the bottom of the 2nd get sent to the dugout for arguing about a call the umpire makes. Not only is he arguing but he takes this argument to the field and into the pitchers circle where my DD is standing. After all this he is still standing by the dugout yelling and screaming. My DD walks the next two batters and then we get and out and we go to the top of the third. This is when things really get messed up we score and bring the game within 3 runs. Bottom of the 3rd my DD is pitching and walks 6 batters and the umpire called a pitch that hit a girls fingers a dead ball and awared 1st base. My DD hasn't walked 6 batters in an entire game much less a inning. I change pitchers at this point and the calls still remains to be the same. The only way we could get a strike out was if the girl was swinging the bat. But why swing when most everything we threw for the most part was balls. We get the game to within two and we are going to the top of the 6th. We have two on and two outs and my third girl gets a hit. The catcher is not only blocking the plate without the ball she is standing up in the base line without the ball. As the ball comes in she has to go around the catcher and the catcher gets the ball and tags her out. Had she not been standing in the base line she could have slide and would have been save. No obstruction is called and the game ends. The umps say that you are aloud to do this. Wrong call I know, we even showed them the rule in the book. We were 11-0 going in to this game. As a team we had 117 strike outs. How do you explain to your girls what just occured?

Thanks for your help!!!!!!!!!! ??? :-X :'( :-/

 

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you had a great season and we will get them next time. I never bash another player, coach, umpire, or a tournament to any of my players.

 

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Sounds like you got Homered ! There's really nothing you can say to the girls that will justify what just happened. All you can do is tell them they did there best, and to keep there heads up. Believe me the kids can tell the difference.
You didn't say what age group you played in, but that isn't the point.
I have manged girls fast pitch for 12yrs, I am now a manger of a 18 U girls Tournament team, and there is nothing that gets a manager or coach more upset then an umpire that has two different strike zones

I am also a Umpire that has done high school, ASA, NSA, Pony, and rec ball. When you step behind that plate and call balls and strikes you better have a consistent strike zone. If you start changing your strike zone to one pitcher, and not the other, then you do not not belong behind the plate.

As for the call at the plate, the only way a catcher can block the plate she must have the ball in hand. If she does not have ball in hand that is ?"obstruction" the runner is safe !

 

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They are 12u girls. I did tell my girls to not hang there heads, they played an awesome game and fought hard to win. I know that there is always next year but unfortunately some of these girls have to move up, so saying will get them next year that is no a opition for them.

 

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Bud,
Everything you stated can and will happen again and you can count on it. The best thing to tell your girls is the positive things that they did during it. Don't harp on negative things out of their control. 11-0 going in is a wonderful thing, again it's rec ball so keep that in mind too. The umps sometime in rec ball do call it tighter for the better pitchers to help make them better. Is that right or wrong? it's not for me to say. I just try and keep them focused on what they can control that's all.

 

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We have to take into account that we are hearing one person's opinion, one side of the story, and that one side is being relayed to us by someone that obviously had a biased emotional investment in the outcome of the game.

But, if everything you say is 100% accurate...

1) Sometimes you have realize that when you're playing recereation level ball, you will get recreation level umpires.

If things were as bad as you say, then you really didn't have two true "umpires" at all. You just had a couple of guys in blue shirts and hats.

2) It is not the umpire's job to "even things up" by applying the rules one way for one team and another way for the other.

The strike zone should be the same for each team and the same for the first inning and the last. These are benchmarks of a good umpire.

See statement (1) re: recreational level umpires.

3) I'm pretty easy going and will give a disgruntled coach the benefit of the doubt, but the yelling, screaming coach arguing a call and bringing the argument out on the field is most likely no longer going to be participating in this game.

Especially if he is arguing a judgment call. And especially if he is an assistant coach and not the head coach.

An old umpire saying: Umpires don't eject coaches. They eject themselves through their own actions. We just announce it.

4) "...the umpire called a pitch that hit a girls fingers a dead ball and awarded 1st base."

Not sure where you're going with that one, but if the batter wasn't swinging at the pitch, and she didn't do anything to purposely allow the pitch to hit her, then this would be the correct call.

I see this a lot. People will complain about an umpire and how bad his calls were, when it is the person complaining that has the rule totally wrong.

If you have this simple rule mixed-up, it does kind of make me wonder about the validity of your other complaints.

5) On the play at the plate, you have a clearly protestable play. Did your coaches protest the rule misinterpretation as outlined in the rule book? It they had, you most likely could have gotten this call reversed.

When the umpire told you that, "Blocking the plate without the ball was allowed", this is no longer a judgment call. It has now become a misapplication of a rule and that is exactly what the protest rule is designed to fix.

Protest correctly and you have a good chance of having the out removed, the run scored and you're still playing ball.

By the way, "protest" doesn't mean see who can scream the loudest and the longest. Check your rule book for the proper protest procedure and how to apply it. If your coaches had been aware of this procedure, they might have salvaged this playoff game.

6) How do you explain to your girls what happened?

"Girls, thanks for all your hard work this year. It was a fun season and I hope you all enjoyed it, and maybe learned a few things along the way. I'm proud of your efforts. Sometimes things don't turn out the way we want, and I wish that we were still playing, but that's the way it goes sometimes. You girls that will be coming back next year, I'll be happy to see you and glad to be your coach".

Then take 'em all to the Dairy Queen and forget about it!

 

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Bretman,

I'm not even going to argue with you. ?I've have called our league director and a formal protest will be filed. ?I do know the rules as my DD has been playing ball for quite sometimes. ?This is the second year in a row this has happened to our organization at the same field with the same umpire. On the getting hit part you have to make an attempt to get out of the box and not just stand there.?Maybe the umpires need updated on the rules. ?It is not my job to have to give umpires the rules it is theres to know them. ?I have suggested moving to to a different league where things are played by the RULES!!!!!!!!!!
NOT GOING TO ARGUE ANY FURTHER ABOUT THIS!!!!!!!! ;D ;D

 

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Budracing my dd's team has had the exact same experience twice this year. ? I would take your approach to the girls and let them know that they did their best and move on, ?it is all you can do. ? ?The girls will experience this as they progress through their softball careers and they can recongnize on their own what has happened. ?Most umps do a good job but you do run into an ump who refuses to call a strike, ?I can't explain it, ?but it sure makes things interesting.

 

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I didn't think that we were arguing. I thought that we were openly commenting on points that you raised in your very own post. If you start a thread and ask for opinions, you have to accept the fact that not all of the opinions will match your own.

Your post is quite clear. Your team lost a game and you think it's the umpire's fault. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. We are only getting one side of the story.

If what you're saying is true then I've already stated that these umpires were unprofessional and obviously not well trained. I wish that I could offer you some advice on how to remedy this, but I have no knowledge of your league's umpire procurement, scheduling, training or evaluation procedures. That is something that you could best take up with your own league officials.

If you know the rules, then you should know that a legal protest must be filed before another pitch is thrown or, if it is the last play of the game, before the umpires leave the field.

Filing one now is a waste of time.

Not to argue, but there is no rule that says a batter must "attempt to get out of the box" when avoiding a pitch.

 

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In this league you would be incorrect on the protest. All protest has to be taken to the board (that is the direct statement from our league director). Again this is what happens when you don't play by the rules..

 

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You can protest a game several days later by going to the league board?

I wonder whether I can still protest my team's loss in the 1981 Class AAA (remember that?) regional final?

Budracing: while bretman has no way to know specific rules of your league, he is otherwise right on point in every single thing he said. In my opinion, you would be wise to heed his advice.

 

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First let me start off by saying...I am in NO way saying that this is what is happening in your case Budracing. ?

Last year me dd played for a coach that blamed the officials for EVERY thing that went wrong during bad games. ?She would tell the girls afterwards, "That blue just inhaled, we lost the game because of him!" ?Well needless to say, that bred a lot of CRAP! ?I made sure my dd knew that the GIRLS lost that game due to poor playing and poor attitudes. ?(of course ?that stemmed from bad coaching!) ?I got so sick and tired of hearing how bad the officiating was. ?The truth of the matter was....She did not know the rules and taught the girls nothing! ?
When I coach, I might feel slighted by certain umpires from time to time, but I teach my girls, its his diamond I am not going to act like an idiot and argue every call. ?There are times when you just have to try harder or just except that you have done all you can and move on!
My dd pitches 12U. ?Let me tell you something, when she comes and says, "He has a stinky strike zone" ?I tell her to get the heck over it and pitch where the man tells her the zone is. ?And that I can not change his mind and I am not going to attempt to tell him where the zone should be! ?She knows she had better never argue with the umpire. ?I can not stand to see a CHILD stand on the field and show blantant disrespect to an adult! ?
JMHO!

 

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BUD

I empathize with you on this one. ?My daughter is only 8, playing up with 10u. ?She is a very advanced pitcher, and after a couple of innings, her strike zone disappears. ?It's amazing. ?It happened a lot this season. ?Even with the "good" umpires. ?It's like they put her on a different "level" or something, and expect her pitched to be on a T, when the other pitchers get a huge strike zone. At first I thought I was just imagining this, and then it just kept happening, game after game. ?I am not even sure the umps are aware they are doing this. ?There was one umpire that I especially liked, and he always commented on how he loved to watch my dd pitch. ?After one game I just asked him if he realized he held her to a different standard than the other pitcher- and he said he didn't realize he did that. ?It never cost us a game or anything, though. ?She had only 11 walks total in 13 games and 111 strike-outs.

You have a reason to be upset, absolutely. ?I don't think bretman meant to upset you, he is an umpire and I think was just trying to explain things thoroughly. ?He always seems to be right-on. ?That's the thing about posting on a forum like this. ?We can't hear the other person's voice intonations, or see their facial expressions or anything, so sometimes, especially when we are already angry, we take things negatively, or out of context.

Good luck with the protest. ?I hope it works out.

However, bretman, I was amazed to see 5 of our rec-league umpires at my older dd's travel tourneys this season at different places. ?So, either these rec umpires are actually "good ones", or these tournaments have been hiring rec umpires! LOL

 

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I didn't intend to paint all rec-league umpires with the same broad brush. There will be good ones and not-so-good ones. Generally speaking, the typical non-certified umpire who only works at the rec-league level will be less likely to have the same rules knowledge and game management skills as the certified ones.

Most certified umpires will also do rec-league games during the week and it's not unusual to see some of the same guys and gals in your local recreational league and at your weekend tournaments.

But most rec-leagues will still rely on volunteers, or non-certified umpires, to cover some portion of their games. While these volunteers are vital to making the league successful, many are not as experienced or well-trained as the certified umpires will be.

For example, the local rec-league I work with could not possibly cover all of their games without the help of these volunteers. The league has over 100 teams and 1600 players in all age divisions of both baseball and softball.

We use a mix of about 25% certified and 75% non-certified umpires to cover the nearly 2000 games scheduled each summer.

Most all of the certified umpires we use also work high school and tournament ball, so it's not unusual to see some of the same faces throughout the year.

 

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WOW,

A lot of emotion on this issue. I have seen everything that has been described here at one time or another and at every level of play. The worst thing any coach can do is to personalize the result to the girls. By that I mean; don't tell the girls that blue had it in for them or anything else along those lines. There is a such thing as home field advantage, whether intentional or not. It is not against your team, it is for the other.

When my DD started pitching she would take every bad call personally as if the ump had it in for her. It took me several months to get her to understand that people are not perfect and that they have no reason to be against her. All of this belief came from a coach telling her that blue was squeezing her because she was throwing so well. Your comments can do a tremendous amount of damage, be very careful when choosing your words.

Remember, it is not all about winning. Use this opportunity to teach something instead of making it a sour memory. Be the adult in the situation. Just my $.02.

Doug

 

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We are fortunate enough to have certified umpires work our rec league games.
That makes it nice to know we are learning from folks that "should" know the game.