When is enough, really enough!

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btw its never "just" a JV game, to those kids its "the" game.

 

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Well everybody kind of missed the point that I was trying to make about it being just a JV game. I was not trying to deminish the game or the players in any way. More to the point JV is about playing innings and getting better. Scores really mean nothing. None of them go into the schools record books, and neither do the hits runs, K's etc. To that end it is a JV game. Coaches should be teaching the game and helping players improve because that is what JV games are all about. Its OK to tell the kids that to by the way. Then when they get better and improve their skills the natural prgression is to move up to Varisty. Where the results are tabulated and records kept. Not trying to burst anyones bubbles thats just the way it is. So in the case of what happened I understand that it was kind of weak of the other coach to act the way he did but I have never thought that its a good practice to teach kids that two wrongs somehow make a right. The better lesson would have been to remind the player that they are there to play their game and get better. That is all that they can control. When you start getting into the other teams dugout and joining in their wackyness then you become one of them. Again this was a JV game and in the end getting reps is all that really matters. I would be proud of the coach for getting all of his players involved and getting them better. I would hope that this would happen in every game not just the ones that you should have won anyway.

 

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I'm sure the varsity coach is peering back to see who's doing what and who's coming up next year. Probably a big deal at JV to have good stats and scores to the Varsity group...

 

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lester I agree with you that any decent varsity coach should know what players are doing at the JV level. In that respect it does matter but most coaches also know that stats at the JV level don't mean very much. Consistency matters, and effort matters but often the competition is just not there. JV play is crucial for many players and I am not knocking it. However the situation noted could have been handled much better and players could have been taught a meaningful lesson. Thats just my opinion. I have never seen anything good in youth sports come out of telling (or showing) your players that two wrongs can make one right. Use the situation as a learning experience not a proving who's more right and who's more wrong experience.

 

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Two wrongs may not make a right, but three rights ALWAYS make a left. Don't forget that.

 

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It shouldn't matter whether it was JV V ,Travel or College.He brings 8 girls to a 10 girl game and tells you for the 2nd time pretty much put em all in to get some reps as if it weren't some competitve nature? You knew you were at a disadvantage for batting all free substitution.Heck if every other girl walks he's alway at the top of his line up by the next inning.You did the right thing by trying to make the best out of the situation.You had the girls best interest in the long run by letting all of them get in some reps but you did your team an injustice by letting him appeal to your good nature.
You traveled to play his team and he only has 8 at a home game? twice? something foul.Sounds like they had a Varsity game and pulled up 2 too many.I'm glad you only let him play you for a fool once,sad for his girls but in your case you protected your best interest and the best interest of your team getting punked once is enough.You could of called them off a little sooner,31 to 10??lol Wow..big difference,I'm just glad you didn't let your girls get slammed twice because of your good nature.Winning isnt everything but it is a measurable.

 

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It shouldn't matter whether it was JV V ,Travel or College.He brings 8 girls to a 10 girl game and tells you for the 2nd time pretty much put em all in to get some reps as if it weren't some competitve nature? You knew you were at a disadvantage for batting all free substitution.Heck if every other girl walks he's alway at the top of his line up by the next inning.You did the right thing by trying to make the best out of the situation.You had the girls best interest in the long run by letting all of them get in some reps but you did your team an injustice by letting him appeal to your good nature.
You traveled to play his team and he only has 8 at a home game? twice? something foul.Sounds like they had a Varsity game and pulled up 2 too many.I'm glad you only let him play you for a fool once,sad for his girls but in your case you protected your best interest and the best interest of your team getting punked once is enough.You could of called them off a little sooner,31 to 10??lol Wow..big difference,I'm just glad you didn't let your girls get slammed twice because of your good nature.Winning isnt everything but it is a measurable.

Well obviously there is no where else to go here. You are right about one thing. Winning isn't everyhting, especially in a JV game. You brought up an interesting poit and I think it sums up the whole point of this thread. You said that "Sounds like they had a Varsity game and pulled up 2 too many" If that the case then be happy for the 2 players who went up and got to play some varisty ball. Now just try and reverse the situation. What if the Varsity sent down 2 of their top players (maybe even an excellent pitcher) well your head would have just been exploding for a different reason. The bottom line is your team got to play a softball game. A JV softball game in which they got the oppertunity to hit, run, field, catch and improve their skills. It should not matter one bit how many players the other team had or who they were. Rolling over the batting order quicker is a silly argument. So your pitcher got to face their hitters once or twice more during the game. Again if the score mattered or it was for a league title well maybe that would be an issue, but seriously JV is about getting reps for players. Sounds like your team got plenty. Rejoice in that and I would not let it effect how many players your team decided to play. Let me finish with this. The fact that your coach started all 13 should say alot about him (or her) how many the other team started should not matter one bit. The fact that the other teams coach acted like a fool is no reason for your coach to follow suit. Lessons are learned in all occasions by HS players. Not sure that one was positive for your teams players. Getting even in a case like that is not an admirable trait to teach.

 

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In the immortal words of Dalton in Roadhouse "Be nice until its not time to be nice."

 

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With all due respect to you, BenBudda, I have no clue who you are, but if you are a coach of any sport, I would hate to see your teams work ethics!

You say that "winning isnt everything, especially in a JV game" and its all about getting reps in.......... WHAT?!?!? I have taught my DD since she was old enough to participate in any sport, "YOU PLAY TO WIN". That means you go out there and give 150% in every game. Be a gracious winner and a respectful loser.

Can you imagine what a team would look like on a field with that attitude? According to your opinion, who cares who wins. Just "try" and catch the ball, just "try and get an out", just get in the box and swing the bat. Hey, its all about reps, right?

I feel that Coach Pigg made the appropriate decision here. If respect for the other team that lost 31 - 10 is such a big issue, then maybe their coach should have taught them how to respect first. Respect is not given it is EARNED!! Now maybe that coach, team, and parents will remember this before running their mouths again. Bottom line is that everyone is there for the same reason, to teach the game of fast pitch and to make the girls stronger players and stronger people.

Yes, JV is a feeder program to Varsity, but never take away the fact that those JV players are their to play a game and win! No, stats are not kept officially at the schools for JV, but the stats do matter to the players, coaches, and parents. It DOES matter to those involved, so dont say that it doesn't.

Sports teaches life lessons.......... I hope that other team that showed such unsportman-like attitudes, learned a valuable life lesson!

 

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Not letting someone take advantage of your good nature and instilling the want to win are admirable traits to teach. What are they going to be doing the rest of their lives, trying to beat someone. Being the best fry cook getting promoted winning a bid. Its all the same.

 

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I am not sure where I come down on this one. It is easy to be the Monday morning quarterback for either side. Things that I would consider.
While it is a JV game, it is not JUST a JV game. It is important to get the reps, and game experience etc. But winning programs have winning attitudes. I am not advocating a win at any cost approach, but teams that believe they can win usually do.
Sportsmanship-Having too few players on 2 different occasions is not acceptable in a high school situation. The opposing team incurs expenses, either in the form of travel, paying umps, field prep. Having enough respect for an opponent to own up and say you are going to be short players gives them the opportunity to reschedule if they choose, or simply accept the forfeit and then hold a practice where specific skills can be worked on. Unfortunately it is also unlikely that the other team "learned a lesson" in this situation. They will simply adhere to the idea that "so what we lost a game where we only had 8 players, we still beat them once". A coach that can't pick up the phone to be courteous enough to admit to a lack of players is not likely to "learn a lesson" from an on field spanking. Another approach the second time MIGHT be to tell the other team that you will take the forfeit and go ahead and go back home. Not saying this is a better approach, just another suggestion.
Whatever your decision is or would have been, take care of your own players. Either address the situation if you think it has affected your team in a negative way, or simply ignore it from here on out.

 

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Did exactly the right thing because this guy was attempting to humilate and demean your team for the ego gain of what is obviously a sub standard team.
You took a stand for your girls and team and showed them that you are not going to allow someone else to take their pride and dignity away. I think if you would have allowed them to do it again you may have risked losing some respect from your team and the backlash could have affected your season.

 

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i think you did the right thing i would have done it

 

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bear34 No I do not coach and I do think that winning is important. I never said that winning did not matter and actually I don't think that the point of this thread is winning or loseing. I think it is more about lessons. As I mentioned earlier, I am not down on JV and I think that the main objective of a JV team is to get players valuable innings of work. Now back to the situation I did say that in the end the score of a JV game means little. Of course not to the players and I don't want to minimize that, but in reality your local HS does not keep JV stats. So my point was given the situation as discribed I feel that the coach should have just explained to his players that this is not that way that we would do it, but lets play ball and get better even in the face of adversity. That would have been a good life lesson and an oppertunity for the coach to still get his point across without stooping to the other coaches level. Again, two wrongs do not make a right, and as adults and especially coaches this is a lesson that they should be teaching. The other method IMHO was childish.

 

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Sorry,not getting reeled on this one. You almost got me in on the last cast.

 

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Thanks to everyone for the comments. I guess the fast-pitch gods must have been watching because my computer went down after I initially posted. Anyway, I would probably do the same thing if I am ever faced with the same situation

 

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Gregg Pigg is the nicest guy you'd ever want to me in your lifetime. I agree with the product of the 2nd game. Your girls didn't deserve that from the other team's coaches.