Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Where are all of the pitchers at?

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I am perplexed by the notion that a fastball is not needed at the highest levels. I was told by a DI pitching coach (2009 WCWS champs) that a PITCHER that has command of a Hard fastball in effect has 4 pitches. Down and in, up and in, down and away, up and away. Mix in a change up with COMMAND and a pitch that can move. That arsenal alone can win a national title, it has been done. a perfectly placed fastball is still the best pitch in the game, ( for pitchers blessed with the ability to throw hard ). If velocity is not something your pitcher is blessed with then movement and changes in the plane and speed are critical. Deception is also critical in keeping hitters guessing.

 

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Not every pitcher has to throw 70 mph and strike every batter out - that isn't going to happen everytime - they are pitching to some great hitters.
A good pitcher should be able to put the ball where she wants it, to control where the ball is hit, so that it is playable by the other 8 players on the field.
Our pitcher does her best and they have her back...TEAMWORK!

 

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Not every pitcher has to throw 70 mph and strike every batter out - that isn't going to happen everytime - they are pitching to some great hitters.
A good pitcher should be able to put the ball where she wants it, to control where the ball is hit, so that it is playable by the other 8 players on the field.
Our pitcher does her best and they have her back...TEAMWORK!

Agree with the statement on control but if she only throws 45mph at 14u or older...sit back and watch the fireworks!!! i agree with ya x-man speed will also win championships as well as gold medals. burn a pitch at 60mph on a corner and come back with a change will make most and im talkin about seniors on down to 8th grade look silly. I dont care how many times your hitting instuctors tell ya to sit on the fast ball and react to the change, you will be made look like a pretzel more time than not.
me personally love to for my dd to be challenged by speed and movement but pitching is becomming watered down because most pitchers parents think that their kid is awsome when the truth is they just good.Im not bashing anyone here at 14u but my opinion is that there are probably 12 pitchers who have a shot at going on to bigger and better things after highschool and the rest well good luck but i want my dd to face those 12 at every tourny if possible because i know if she does it will make her better and mabey she might have a chance to go to the next level as well, if she faces just ok pitching well..she herself will become an ok hitter and so on.Thats the simple truth IMO.

 

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#1 DOMINANT SUPERSTUD PITCHER NEEDED

So-so team with coach of limited vision and abilities looking for next NCAA World Series phenom pitcher to materialize out of nowhere. Her fastball must have enough zip to part the Red Sea, since this pitcher will deliver our team from the slavery of mediocrity to the Promised Land of showcase tournament championships. Pitcher must be able to make my dull, lackluster life bearable, if only for a few months.

Would this also be considered a"showcase" or "exposure" pitcher???

 

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My DDs pitching coach told her she is no longer allowed to throw a fastball. A fastball implies a single plane pitch. No sense in throwing a pitch that never changes planes, way to easy to hit.
She only "attempts" to throw drops, offspeed drops, and change ups.

jdcii
How old is your DD?

Your just going to quit on possibly making her faster, you must work on her fast ball. Lets face it, movement is good, but when you have both speed and movement then you will have the skills to play at the next level.

 

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It's not just speed, it's unpredictable and undetectable change of speed - when the batter is not expecting it.

A 60 mph fastball sets up an unpredictable 47 mph change-up (thrown with lots of backspin) as a very tough pitch to judge speed on. The reason 60 mph is a good target speed is because it allows CHANGE of speed without a looping, arching change-up. A pitch with an arch can easily be detected by the batter - same as a "slow arm" change-up. A 47 - 50 mph backhand change with lots of backspin will tend to drop less, and appear to be coming straight until it falls off the table at the last second.

A pitcher with a top speed in the low to mid 50's will have a much harder time with change of speeds. IMO, it takes more than pure junk - a successful pitcher must have deceptive change of speed AND movement.

That is why DI college coaches are looking for that Holy Grail 60+ mph pitcher.

 

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I always think of Greg Maddox when it comes to great pitchers. A guy that only threw 85mph in the major league and won over 300 games. He had great command of every pitch he threw.

 

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jdcii
How old is your DD?

Your just going to quit on possibly making her faster, you must work on her fast ball. Lets face it, movement is good, but when you have both speed and movement then you will have the skills to play at the next level.

You misunderstand. She is still suppsed to throw hard and fast. However, she is no longer to throw a flat straight fastball. She throws the drop as her fastball and moves it around the corners. And her fastball and drop are the exact same pitch, same speed, different release point. Her PC feels there is no point in throwing a single plane pitch because no matter how well you move it around the zone, the good hitters will adapt.

 

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You misunderstand. She is still suppsed to throw hard and fast. However, she is no longer to throw a flat straight fastball. She throws the drop as her fastball and moves it around the corners. And her fastball and drop are the exact same pitch, same speed, different release point. Her PC feels there is no point in throwing a single plane pitch because no matter how well you move it around the zone, the good hitters will adapt.

What age and what level is your dd playing right now?

 

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She is 11, playing 12u travel. Her PC is Bill Hillhouse, and I trust his judgement 100%.

 

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It's not just speed, it's unpredictable and undetectable change of speed - when the batter is not expecting it.

A 60 mph fastball sets up an unpredictable 47 mph change-up (thrown with lots of backspin) as a very tough pitch to judge speed on. The reason 60 mph is a good target speed is because it allows CHANGE of speed without a looping, arching change-up. A pitch with an arch can easily be detected by the batter - same as a "slow arm" change-up. A 47 - 50 mph backhand change with lots of backspin will tend to drop less, and appear to be coming straight until it falls off the table at the last second.

A pitcher with a top speed in the low to mid 50's will have a much harder time with change of speeds. IMO, it takes more than pure junk - a successful pitcher must have deceptive change of speed AND movement.

That is why DI college coaches are looking for that Holy Grail 60+ mph pitcher.

Bingo.....

 

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One thing I noticed this past season as a first year 16u team. My slower pitcher who throws her fastest speed of 55 - 57 on a good day had more 3 to 4 pitch innings this past season. I like to say we pitch smart. When we faced a stronger hitting team they seemed to struggle with the slower speeds. We threw a lot of change ups and moved it around in the zone. As far as a fast ball my DD is also taught not to throw a fast ball because it traditionally has no spin (or not enough) and remains flat.

 

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I have to disagree. We had tryouts....Now we are stacked with NEW pitchers.

 

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I think it is much harder to find a quality catcher than a quality pitcher. There are so many kids out there taking pitching lessons (at the younger levels) and there seem to be new teams every year ready to pick them up. I wish more kids/parents would make the commitment at the catcher position. Playing catcher requires a lot of commitment that I see out of very few players/parents.

 

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Interesting thread...We had to look long and hard, but we found what we needed (with more than a little help from our friends - thanks Les!). Sure I would love to have that 2K/IP type of pitcher, but I can operate with the good control, good command, and mound presence type and still win.

 

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I think it is much harder to find a quality catcher than a quality pitcher. There are so many kids out there taking pitching lessons (at the younger levels) and there seem to be new teams every year ready to pick them up. I wish more kids/parents would make the commitment at the catcher position. Playing catcher requires a lot of commitment that I see out of very few players/parents.

Just think if you had a WHOLE TEAM of kids committed to improving their skills at every position - like these pitchers you refer to are doing. The truth is this is why the Lasers, Wolfpack, Stingrays, etc. typically have the pick of the litter.

Speaking of commitment, this obviously applies to hitting too. Any team that constantly struggles against slower pitching is a team lacking in quality hitting skills. To truly know the skill level of any given pitcher, she has to be consistently be pitching to kids with strong hitting skills. This is why I put very little stock in high school pitching stats. Most HS pitchers only need to "pitch around" 3 or 4 batters, and the rest are fairly easy pickings.

 

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I would say as well most coaches with half a brain do not let their pitchers hit the "open market". Not saying they force them to stay but I would say most know if they have their top pitchers coming back as well.

 

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You have a good point Stephen. Especially at the older age groups most
good pitchers know their options before open tryouts and know where they
will be the next season.

 

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We try to let all our players know whether they will be invited back at least a week before tryout season begins. And we ask them to respond to us before tryouts as well so we can advertise accurately as to our needs.

I know there are some who believe that we are passing up the opportunity to improve the team by making everyone earn their team membership at the open tryout, but I think that the stability for the team created by keeping a core group of girls cannot be overestimated. We've got a whole database (three years now for several of our players) based on actual experience, and by "database" I'm not talking just about statistics. Things like how the families will get along, whether the parents are supportive of the program even if their daughter sits some, whether the girls and the parents are willing to invest the time and expense into proper mechanics . . .hard to predict these things if you are willing to commit to a wholesale turnover of players. Keeping a core is, I think, a HUGE advantage in reducing drama during the travel season.

 

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We try to let all our players know whether they will be invited back at least a week before tryout season begins. And we ask them to respond to us before tryouts as well so we can advertise accurately as to our needs.

I know there are some who believe that we are passing up the opportunity to improve the team by making everyone earn their team membership at the open tryout, but I think that the stability for the team created by keeping a core group of girls cannot be overestimated. We've got a whole database (three years now for several of our players) based on actual experience, and by "database" I'm not talking just about statistics. Things like how the families will get along, whether the parents are supportive of the program even if their daughter sits some, whether the girls and the parents are willing to invest the time and expense into proper mechanics . . .hard to predict these things if you are willing to commit to a wholesale turnover of players. Keeping a core is, I think, a HUGE advantage in reducing drama during the travel season.

Nice formula cgs. I want you to coach my grandkids!