Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Where have all the Pitchers gone?

[Buckeye_bomber00]

A 62 MPH drop, ball should be spinning 24-30 revs, if she is a peel fastball pitcher, her FB should be in the high 60s (66-69 mph) range. We have been in 16U tourneys all year and have not seen that dominating speed. That is Bloom Carolls Avelo range !

 

[Miller]

Coach E
If everything is accurate she should be getting pursued like the rabbit on a greyhound track. My daughter is a junior pitcher in college. She attended the kent camp 9th grade through 11th grade. She was 60-62 on all her movement pitches with spin in high 20s. She had 30 coaches (all divisions) stand by her at the camp for a whole session as a junior. A 14 year old in that range should be a hot commodity and have the college coach drooling.

 

[Chad Strahler]

@wildcatz, the pocket radar is mostly used when measuring her speed. 62 has been her highest reading of her drop ball on it. You can not calibrate it like you can a Juggs gun. It is suppose to be accurate +/- 1 mph.

The pocket radar is pretty accurate, I have one. Have only seen one maybe two girls throwing that in 18u travel ball...

 

[fanandfun]

At 16U, there seems to be a never ending need for pitchers. Our team is one! But, lots of posts looking for pitchers. When my daughter started playing 8 years ago, everybody wanted to pitch and there were a lot of pitchers. Is it the fact that the game has been watered down with so many teams, and new organizations popping up? Or is there less interest because of fewer opportunities in college for pitchers....or a combination of issues? Thoughts?

My daughter is a 16u UT/P. She realized at about age 14 that she had no interest in playing college ball if she were just going to pitch and only pitch- she had too much love for the game & had played on some very competitive teams where pitchers rarely played the field. She had always been a great hitter (due to a lot of hard work) and also a decent fielder. At the end of the 14u season, she parted ways from her Lasers team so she could find a team where she could get the PT in the field too to help her develope into a complete softball player- it was not an easy decision but looking back, a smart one. In January of her sophomore year in HS, she verballed D1 as a UT/P/Hitter. She was willing to put aside pitching all together to play D1 softball but lucky for her, she found the right fit - coaches that want her for her bat, fielding and as a pitcher.

I honestly think that at age 14, kids realize what they want at the next level. Many see the writing on the wall.

 

[Coach E.]

A 62 MPH drop, ball should be spinning 24-30 revs, if she is a peel fastball pitcher, her FB should be in the high 60s (66-69 mph) range. We have been in 16U tourneys all year and have not seen that dominating speed. That is Bloom Carolls Avelo range !

Don't know how you would be able to calculate that. The peel drop will always be clocked as the fastest pitch since the revolutions will make the ball travel faster along with the down angle. Plus most radar guns will pick up the spin adding to the speed. Theoretically a fast ball doesn't have very much if any spin that's why it isn't a breaking pitch. Why would anyone want to throw a non breaking ball straight into the zone? I learned that from Doug Gillis. His philosophy is to teach vertical movement pitches.

 

[lewam3]

Don't know how you would be able to calculate that. The peel drop will always be clocked as the fastest pitch since the revolutions will make the ball travel faster along with the down angle. Plus most radar guns will pick up the spin adding to the speed. Theoretically a fast ball doesn't have very much if any spin that's why it isn't a breaking pitch. Why would anyone want to throw a non breaking ball straight into the zone? I learned that from Doug Gillis. His philosophy is to teach vertical movement pitches.

My advice is to go to the combine-type camps set up before Stingrays in Columbus, or Pennsbury in Yardley, Pa., and have her throw with her peers at 9 different stations in front of 100+ coaches. She will be clocked at three of those stations with Jugs Pro, Rev-fire, and pocket radar devices.
All speeds are announced with your "number" after each pitch and also published later. If your player is truly hitting 62-63 as a sophomore in high school, she will immediately get huge interest and then they will follow her in the tournament games right after the combine. If she is NOT breaking the 60 mph speed, then she will know, you will know, her dad will know, and the coaches watching will know that she is not. Btw, only 7 out of 70 pitchers broke 60 mph the day DD was there.

 

[mike_dyer]

A 14 year old who college coaches aren't showing much, if any, interest in???

It's a mystery, I tells ya.

 

[Uber_jones]

Could also be that being recruited as a pitcher is extremely difficult. I have 2 very good pitchers on my team. One in particular can throw low 60's has a very good drop ball and an awesome change up and has been very effective against upper level teams we have played these past 2 seasons. We are a second year 14u team. She attended the Kent State camp this past winter. We have also played in 2 local PGF tournaments that were attended by a lot of college coaches at every division level. She has also attended camps. With that said she hasn't received much if any interest from colleges. Even from the camps she has attended. Seems most colleges are recruiting pitchers from out of state more than local.

I've seen just about all the top 01 & 00 pitchers in the state, both of your pitchers are right there with the top kids. I'm really surprised their both not signed. Not only are both very good pitchers but I'd take both of their sticks to. I figured both already had verbaled until seen this post.

 

[randadea]

my daughter has pitching experience but cannot find a team that wants to work with her at that position. she pitched for middle school and high school teams but has never pitched in travel. and unfortunately not all of us can afford a pitching coach. besides i have not seen 2 pitching coaches that teach the same thing.

 

[dalemurphy3]

To quote a former president. "Its the economy stupid.". When the economy tanked back in 08 or when ever, parents had to tighten there belts, since we are all softball addicts and will do what ever it takes to pay the fees and travel, the only thing left to cut is coaching fees. I have a small fortune in my DD's pitching hitting and disable list expenses over the last five years. Parents who can not afford lessons force there DD's to play the positions that do not require weekly lessons, drive to and from pitching coach can be up to hour one way, and special equipment. No money no pitching. Unless you have a true athlete and god bless your soul if you actually think that happens. Pitching takes hours and hours and hours of practice and proper mechanic lessons. So now those untrained 9 year olds of 2008 are showing up in 16U playing the cheaper spots. Not say any spot is cheaper in travel, but less expensive.

I will also add that many a talented pitcher have been shown the door way to early in 12U. I personally did not take a girl who I thought did not have a chance and she is turning into a pretty good pitcher. Dope!! I'm happy that she and her mom showed me so maybe its also a little vision thing by the Testosterone driven Head Coaches. Mostly money though!!

 

[Uber_jones]

I dunno about the lessons thing, my DD pitched in college D2 and didn't have a pitching coach. She was recruited to play infield which she did but also pitched. I used the Internet to learn stuff to help her, it wasn't a money issue, it was kind of just more fun for us that way.

I think the pitching issue is this... To many teams. Just 10 years ago in NWO when my DD was at 12u, there were 3 teams in our area. So if you wanted to pitch travel you had to work your butt off, and you had to keep working. Those 3 teams produced college pitchers.

Now if you want to pitch and aren't getting the time in the circle you want, you don't work harder, you look for another team, and if that fails your dad or mom starts a team.

 

[mike_dyer]

I can tell you that right now, as I type this, your pitcher(s) is or are about to start being recruited if they weren't already. Unfortunately it's not by college coaches, not yet anyway.

I'm sure the vultures are circling and if they can find out where to watch them and/or how to get in touch with the kid's parents they will be in their ears in a matter of days letting them know all about the much better opportunities that they have for them.

Of course they know that college coaches have absolutely no interest in contacting about 99.9999999% of the 14u players from sea to shining sea, the parents don't though.

They're not recruiting from another state, you see, they're recruiting from another age group. I'm not sure how people who are living it still can't figure it out.

 

[coachjwb]

Just bumping this thread back up ... thought it was a good one, and thought some may have missed it given it was the week of the 4th. Had intended to talk about it on the radio show last night but never got to it. Looking for more input/theories on this ... is the quality and quantity of the pitching talent diminishing? If so, what are the reasons ... or does it just seem that way to some people because hitting is better?

 

[FastBat]

Where's all the pitcher's? Where to start...
- In a line-up, there are at least 9 spots for hitters, 1 spot for a pitcher. The odds of being a hitter are greater than being a pitcher. Therefore, spending your private lesson cash on hitting lessons, makes sense.
- It seems in 10u, physically bigger girls are preferred to pitch, therefore smaller girls could be discouraged. Just making it to 12u as a pitcher must be some sort of milestone.
- There is a long learning curve with pitching "strikes". How many pitches does it take to pitch continuous strikes? Many, many hours of practice.
- The cost of lessons is very taxing on families, most coaches want to know who the pitcher's pitching coach is, therefore you need one. Not always, I'm sure. (Not saying other positions don't have private lessons or in same situation.)
- In this area you need to find a place to pitch inside frequently during the winter, which can become a burden.
- While a player can practice tee work on their own, much of pitching requires another person to be present, in general. So the level of parent involvement is huge, in most situations. (Not saying it's not with other positions too.)
- Pitchers just have to be naturally "mentally tough." They have to have thick skin, other parents/coaches/opponents will forget the pitcher is a little girl too. Some pitcher's/pitcher's parents can't handle it and quit.
- If a player opt's to pitch as an 8 year old, would that same zest for pitching last until 16 years old? That's doubtful.
- There'a probably many more...

 

[Bink44]

FastBat...very well said!

 

[Run26]

I think a lot of this perception (not enough pitchers) may also depend on which tournaments you are attending. Traveling around to some of the elite 16 - 18U tournaments over the past few years I can say that there are still some very good pitchers out there. Even the top 16 & 18U teams in Ohio boast top tier pitching. The thing that keeps these teams elite is depth. 1 pitcher can't carry the load especially if you are playing high level hitters. It is way more mental than physical when you have to game plan a line up versus throwing balls past a mediocre team.

Unfortunately, today's day and age has allowed some of these kids to get a little lazy. It's "expected" that things will just fall into place because you attend a 1 hour session once a week with Dr. Fastball in some barn in the burbs. It doesn't happen. Pitching is a craft versus a position. You must practice WAY more than an offensive player if you want to be successful. The good ones know this and put in the work.

BTW, I'd take an elite pitcher over an elite hitter anyday. The hitter may get more chances but a smart pitcher with command will win the battle many times over.

To the OP or any other travel parent that thinks pitchers have gone away - swing by Stingrays this weekend. I'm guessing you'll change your mind a smidge.

 

[cork34]

There have been a lot of very good points brought up on this subject. I will bring another perspective. What I am about to say is not showing any disrespect to any softball organization but reflects the changes in the Travel Softball world over the last several years.

If I am a talented or very talented 14u / 16u pitcher and I am interested in having the opportunity to play major D1 softball. I am looking to play against the best competition across North America week in and week out. I want to face the best hitters from the West Coast and the South. I know I have to prove myself to the D1 coaches that I can handle these types of hitters to be able to compete at their D1 level. I want an organization that can provide the resources and college coach contacts that I need to succeed. Even though the Travel softball organizations in Ohio are very good they are not able to offer the same level of play and resources that the high tier softball organizations are able to offer. With the pitching talent continuing to get better and better coming out of this region the demand is increasing and you see the high tier organizations making adjustments to accommodate to these talented pitchers needs. If you look at the talented pitchers that have made verbal commitments to major D1 colleges in the last couple of years they are all playing with those high tier organizations.

That is where the pitching talent is going. IMO

 

[travelinmom]

It can be a huge challenge to find the right team/coach so perhaps parents should spend more time on this than nagging about DD not practicing. Happy teens tend to better and more dedicated players than their emotional peers. Not every girl is looking for D1 or that top level summer team. Pitching is a huge time commitment and teen girls want results for that time. If coaches aren’t playing them enough, recognizing their contributions, and using their other skills too, the girls will walk away. They want teammate respect/approval as much as they want the coach’s so if girls are snarky in the dugout, the girls will walk away. Many girls just burn out and don’t want to put the time into their craft.

Our DD started pitching at age 10, she has played every position on the field and worked on her hitting. As she got older, she decided D1 was not realistic for her. She is short, has small hands, and is a more naturally gifted junk pitcher than a speedy fast ball pitcher. She decided around age 15 that she wanted to include a “social life” so she backed down pitching from 5 days to 2- 3 days a week. She worked with her coaches on playing other infield positions and continued hitting. She went to the Kent thing Junior year and got several D2 and 3 offers.

Our DD found a college team who plays pitchers at other positions if they are good enough and uses their bats if they are hot. As a freshman, she mostly pitched but did get a few innings at first and got 12 trys at bat; she had a few strike outs before hitting a few singles and her first ever homerun. Pitching remains her focus since that’s why the coach wanted her. This is her last summer of 18U, the team only has 9-10 players any given day so she is always on the field pitching or playing first; she doesn’t mind not pitching because she is on the field and playing the sport she loves.

 

[Pitch Perfect]

My kiddo is a 14U pithcer. Aside form the hard work, extra expenses, and politics, there is a lot of pressure and mental preparedness that goes into it as well. Not all players are cut out to pitch and sometimes it takes until 13U and up to realize the mental make up is not there. It's the age where many of them throw in the towel. They choose boyfriends, jobs, and friends over pitching. Our team started with 5 pitchers and we are at 2-3 because the others threw in the towel. And kudos to the ones that wear a mask despite what others think. Every player is way too beautiful inside and out to take that chance.

 

[Buckeye_bomber00]

I never expected to see 5000 views on this topic, and to see the interest and the theories, but it is serious question. It reminds me a lot of the old addage that "right handed baseball pitchers are a dime a dozen", but if you are a left handed pitcher you have it made. So many points have been made and theories about the loss of so many pitchers, or the thinning out after 14U, one thing I think some of is failed to point out, is that most 16U girls come out of a hard fast softball season, and most HS coaches use one pitcher, not that I want to hijack my own thread and walk that path, but in some cases that may deter more girls from continuing to learn and excel at their craft. Oddly, life is not the movies...there is no field of dreams. We have built them, and girls who really want to pitch, are not coming. We are losing them. I was hoping a pitching coach, or two would have chimes in especially in pursuit of what it really takes, physically and with the mental side of the game, and how that affects girls as they transition from 14U to 16/18.