Umps - Blown calls that have made you laugh, cry, scratch your head, or pop a gasket!

[default]

I wouldn't believe this one if I hadn't witnessed it myself. My daughter's 13U team is playing up in a high school (16-18U) league one night per week for practice. We were playing a decent 18U travel team. Pitcher will be playing at a DII school in the fall. One of our girls (just turned 13 a few months ago) hits a rocket that clears the high school fence by 20 feet (I was sitting in center). Our team is elated! The girls meet her at the plate, of course. One of them supposedly made contact with her before she touched home, and the home plate up called her out on the spot. Rules are rules, but to put a damper on a moment like that in a fun summer league was pointless and pathetic.
The opposing pitcher was all class and was all about congratulating our hitter. Their team really showed great sportsmanship when they all signed and dated a ball, and the pitcher handed it to our hitter after the game.

 

[default]

My 11 year old DD just started playing softball (after many years of being the anti-sport child). A girl on her rec team had a foot in the batters box and a foot out with her hand up, measuring up her bat at the plate. The ump gave the go ahead to pitch. The girl in that was lining up her bat literally missed getting nailed in the face by about 2 inches. The ump said, "I am in charge and I don't have to grant your time." I realize he has the say in whether or not to grant time for her to line up but why in heavens name would you put an 11 year old girl at risk for what could have been a very serious injury?? I don't understand umps that have to prove that they are the boss....ridiculous!

Obviously, you weren't dealing with a trained or experienced umpire.

The umpire should not allow a pitch to be thrown if the batter is off-balance, not ready or not yet fully set up in the batter's box. No, he doesn't have to grant time whenever it's requested. But the rules give the batter 10 seconds to get set between pitches and also say that the batter must be set before a pitch can be thrown.

You have to remember that the lowest levels of softball will usually have the least experienced umpires. With the least experienced umpires, you often get the "I'm in charge" tough guy attitude just as a means of covering up for their own inexperience.

 

[default]

I wouldn't believe this one if I hadn't witnessed it myself. My daughter's 13U team is playing up in a high school (16-18U) league one night per week for practice. We were playing a decent 18U travel team. Pitcher will be playing at a DII school in the fall. One of our girls (just turned 13 a few months ago) hits a rocket that clears the high school fence by 20 feet (I was sitting in center). Our team is elated! The girls meet her at the plate, of course. One of them supposedly made contact with her before she touched home, and the home plate up called her out on the spot. Rules are rules, but to put a damper on a moment like that in a fun summer league was pointless and pathetic.
The opposing pitcher was all class and was all about congratulating our hitter. Their team really showed great sportsmanship when they all signed and dated a ball, and the pitcher handed it to our hitter after the game.

Yuck. The old "touching the runner is an automatic out" RULE MYTH rears it's ugly head once again...

There's absolutely no real rule basis for calling an out here. But I still hear stories every year about this imaginary rule being called. In fact, I can remember it being called when I played little league years ago...and I'm sure it was being called even before that!

The rules prohibit anyone other than another runner from assisting a runner during a live ball play. On a home run the ball is dead, so that rule can't be applied here. And a high-five, handshake or pat on the back is NOT assisting the runner in her effort to run the bases. Assisting a runner means something like grabbing her to stop her from advancing, pushing her forward toward the next base or helping her up off the ground if she falls.

It's one of those old rule myths that just won't die. From the time we were kids on the playground, we probably heard some variation of "if you touch a runner she's out". As with most other rule myths, there might be a tiny kernel of truth behind it (runners can't be assisted during a live ball) but it's been so commonly misinterpreted that it gets to the point where many people just think that really is the rule.

 

[default]

This past weekend in Orrville...
My DD's team in the field.
Catcher throws down to first base to pick off runner.
Runner dives (returns to 1B)
Ball ends up going into RF where our right fielder kicks ball out of play.
The base runner was awarded 2nd base only.

Batting team argued that the base runner should have been awarded 3rd base based on theory of runner gets an extra base.

Umpire ruled that the base runner was awarded getting back to 1st base as one base. She was awarded 2nd base as her extra base. (The runner did get back to her feet and started running as the ball was kicked our of play ... she was not half way to 2nd when the ball was kicked out of play)

I believe everyone thought the runner should have been awarded 3rd until he gave the explanation of giving the runner 1st base as one of the awarded bases.

Any thoughts or opinions?

 

[default]

Base awards on balls out of play are some of the most commonly confused rules.

Generally, for a thrown ball, the award is two bases (forward) from the last base the runner had attained, determined from when the throw was made (when the ball left the fielder's hand).

The "kick" out of play could change the award on some plays, but wouldn't on this one. Since the outfielder kicked the ball out of play, the base award would be two bases from the runner's position when the ball was kicked. You say that the runner hadn't reached second base yet when the ball was kicked, so the award here is exactly the same as if the ball was thrown directly out of play- two bases (forward) from first base.

The runner should have been given third base. Her direction when the ball was thrown or kicked is irrelevant and first base should not have been part of her award.

If the "kick" would have happened after the runner had reached second base, then her award would have been home.

My question...and a question I have about a lot of these posts...I wonder why the offended team did not file an official protest? You can "argue" for a call and plead your case all you want, but until you file an official protest (as outlined in the rule book) you have about a zero chance of the bad call being reversed. And this one was a 100% incorrect rule interpretation where winning the protest should have been automatic.

 

[default]

Played in a tourney this weekend that used two umpires. Never in my life have I seen a worst group of officials!! Had the same group of 4-5 rotating through our games both days. Didn't understand "look back rule" so they stopped game to go ask UIC. Let batter/runner advance to 1B on dropped third strike while 1B was occupied with no outs. Bases loaded, no out and ball hit in the air between 1st and 2nd...no infield fly called. Not to mention, anytime runners got on base and the field umpire slid over, the home plate umpire made the out or safe calls at first!!! ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!! With runners on 2B or 3B the umpires would position themselves 10 feet in the grass and in no position to see or make a suitable call.

I had finally had it after one game and went up two both of them and said, " I don't mean to offend you but I want to give you some constructive criticism...learn what the dropped 3rd strike rule as well as the infield fly rule" and then walked away. They looked at me like.."you got the nerve telling us how to umpire!!!" During my post game wrap up with the 12U team I coach I asked them what the rules for the "dropped third strike" and "infield fly" were and they all knew it and were amused at how the umpires didn't. Probably why the tourney took so long to get teams.

 

[default]

I cannot answer as to why they would not have filed an official protest on this particular call. The play did not change the outcome of the game. I believe I would have been a bit more vocal if the call would have been against us. The base runner did get back to her feet after the overthrow ... I am guessing she was on the bag or a step off the bag when our RF lost her footing charging the ball then inadvertently kicked the ball out of play.

 

[default]

My 15 y-o. is playing an 18 U schedule. COMMON problem this year is crow-hop. It seems to me that at least half of the pitchers we face get both feet in the air and replant. One girl was so bad she was in front of the circle.....This past weekend at the Buckeye, we pointed out opposing pitcher doing it. Two college coaches were there to watch one of the girls on our team, and they both commented on it. Umpires response: "Well, it is ilegal, but since this is a Showcase, I don't want to ruin the game or her chances...." First, TWO teams are playing, and if you arbitrarily ignore a rule you are by default penalizing one team. Second, I don't how these college coaches feel about it, but we were told before they don't pitchers they would have to fix mechanically, so I don't think he was helping the girl by not enforcing the rule. Ironically, the home plate umpire did call one of our pitchers for being "outside the lines" which did not exist.

 

[default]

Yes, I have to say we have faced a couple of teams who's pitcher crow hopped. One particular team has a pitcher who has a text book crow hop. (every pitch, not once and a while) There is debate over dragging the toe, however; this pitcher completely leaps, re-plants, then fires the ball from 38 feet. The umpires did not feel comfortable calling it. One guy said he did not want to mess with the pitchers head. (I saw her pitch in three games since ours ... same deal, other teams also complained)

The competative advantage is one issue ......... I would think the coach / pitcher / parent would want to correct a bad habit before it hurts her later.

 

[default]

Its been a CRAZY couple of weeks with plays and calls most have went in our favor. It may be due to the heat???
Our last pool game up at B.O.B our batter has 2-2 count swings and misses a ball chest high. Umpire calls ball... Other coach comes out of dugout to ask for help from the other umpire he said he did not see a swing. Next pitch appears to get a lot of plate knee high batter draws a walk...

This past weekend in one game on the turf field there were several unusual plays/calls. Keep in mind no batters box or circle on these fields and the pitchers plate looked to be at 40' umpire said he walked it off and it was pretty close to 43'? The other rubber was for mens slow pitch way back.

Opposing team batter hits ball that bounces off of Orange base for a triple. Question was asked if the orange bag was considered fair. Umpire response was it was a fair ball...
Next pitch base runner awarded home for illegal pitch because our pitcher stepped out of the pitching lane...

Next inning opposing team has one out a runner on third, Batter at the plate draws a walk and jogs down to 1st. Our pitcher has the ball by the time runner reaches 1st base.
Runner rounds 1st base bag onto the field about two feet and goes back. Field umpire called both runners out for leaving the bag when the pitcher had the ball.
The runner on third stepped off he bag on ball four about two feet and never returned. I assume thinking the runner was going to go onto second base? Either way we got out of the inning with two outs on a walk.

Toward the end of the game squeeze play on for the opposition... Runner takes off for home... batter bunts the ball out about 3-4 feet in front of home. Ball takes a crazy hop back to our catcher that applies the tag to the sliding runner for the out.
Opposing coach said a foul ball should have been called since the catchers feet were behind home when she fielded the ball then fell on the plate... Umpire said the ball was gloved in front of the plate Call stood...

 

[default]

Keep in mind no batters box or circle on these fields and the pitchers plate looked to be at 40' umpire said he walked it off and it was pretty close to 43'?

We had several games at the Buckeye Showdown with the rubber at 40 ft. in our 18U games. We actually got them to move it back on a dirt field. I'm guessing it was because of so many different age groups sharing fields.

 

[default]

Its been a CRAZY couple of weeks with plays and calls most have went in our favor. It may be due to the heat???

Man, you have had some good ones lately!

At least the last one seems to have been the right call. It doesn't matter where the catcher's feet were, only where the ball was when it was touched. It wouldn't even need to be "out in front of the plate" to be a fair ball. Directly over the plate or even just barely over where the two foul lines converge at the point of the plate would make this a fair ball. The opposing coach's argument was all wet...

The "triple" that hit the orange base...if that's all it hit, then this should be a foul ball. The orange base is entirely in foul ground and the rule book even says a batted ball hitting it is foul.

The offended coach should have trotted out the "P" word...PROTEST!

The look back rule violation...it is IMPOSSIBLE to have two runners called out for violating the look back rule on one play. When one runner violates the rule, the ball is immediately dead and you can't call another out. If they both violate it at "almost the same time", then the umpures have to determine which runner violated it first. Call that one runner out and put the other one back on base.

Besides that...it doesn't even sound like there was a violation from either runner (though it's unclear what exactly the runner on third was doing when she "never returned" to the base). By the way...even though your pitcher had the ball before the batter-runner reached first base, by rule the look back rule doesn't kick in until the batter-runner actually reaches/touches first base. Up to that point, the runner on third can do whatever she wants- stand there, start, stop, reverse, dance a jig...

Another PROTESTABLE rule misinterpretation that would be 100% winnable. I wonder why more coaches don't avail themselves of this opportunity afforded by the rules to correct a bad call?

 

[default]

...

Another PROTESTABLE rule misinterpretation that would be 100% winnable. I wonder why more coaches don't avail themselves of this opportunity afforded by the rules to correct a bad call?

Probably because it costs $100 bucks a shot at some tournaments. That's a lot to put down on something you may or may not win lol.

 

[default]

Probably because it costs $100 bucks a shot at some tournaments. That's a lot to put down on something you may or may not win lol.

Personal opinion here...

I think that charging an enormous fee to file a protest is ridiculous and a slap in the face to the teams who are already paying their hard-earned cash for umpires who should be making the right calls in the first place.

The official rules in the rule book that describe protests DO NOT call for any sort of fee to be involved. If you're being charged to file one, that is solely at the discretion of the folks running your league or tournament.

An official protest gives a coach the opportunity to "make things right" when a rule is misapplied. To me, the goal of every umpire should be to ultimately "get things right". Why should this right afforded under the playing rules be restricted in any way?

The most common reason I hear offered is that charging a fee cuts down on the number of "frivilous" protests. That reasoning doesn't fly with me and here's why: If a protest is "frivilous" (ie: without merit, groundless, unfounded or unsupported by the rule book), then upon review it would be summarily dismissed. If it is dismissed, then there is no game to be replayed, no umpires to pay again and no issue with field scheduling or time limits. In short, there is NO COST and NO INCONVENIENCE involved for the host if a protest is dismissed.

There's no real downside when a protest is dismissed. But when one is valid and upheld, there is a tremendous upside. Why should a team have to suffer with an erroneous call if there is a means for the call to be corrected? And, if it is corrected, the umpires who made the wrong call will learn something- the proper rule.This will cut down on their same mistakes being repeated again and again and lead to better officiating.

Every tournament has an Umpire-in-Chief on hand who, usually, isn't doing much more than sitting around for hours on end. This is the person who should be reviewing a protest involving playing rules. They're already being paid to be there and they don't have to be paid extra if they need to rule on a protest- that's one of the reasons they're there in the first place.

Charging a ridiculous fee to disuade protests essentially guts the official protest procedure outlined in the rule book. It makes it LESS LIKELY that a bad call will be "made right". I don't think that either one of those things should be the goal of the folks running a league or tournament.

 

[default]

Bretman----I agree with you wholeheartedly.

 

[default]

Yeah, definitely some crazy calls there, coachdennis. Bretman, some tournament roles specifically state no protests, while most require fees of $100 which are non-refundable if you lose (pretty sure I remember one set of tournament rules where it said non-refundable either way!), not to mention the fact that timed games are getting delayed, and everyone including the umpires are going to be PO'd. I don't think most people are ever going to do that in a pool game, let alone the fact that most people these days aren't carrying around $100! I've probably coached in 1500 youth baseball or softball games over the years, and I've yet to see someone do it. I have seen it in MLB, and I know there's like a decision several days later ... can you tell us a little bit about how the process would actually work in a tournament? So I tell the umps I am protesting the game before play resumes and give them the money, and is the TD and/or UIC called over to decide immediately? If not, how are the facts of what happened documented and what happens to the schedule?

P.S. I started writing this before your last post, Bretman, so you kind of answered some of my questions, but can you fill in the rest of the details here? And as far as the fact that tournaments shouldn't be doing this, the fact is that they do. So please answer the questions with that in mind if you could. Have you actually had it happen in tournaments you've umped and how was it handled?

 

[default]

Just looked up what they're doing in GAPSS this weekend ...

"Protests:​

Protests will be considered, but must be made immediately and accompanied by a $100 fee, refundable only if the protest isupheld. Play will be halted and the protest will be acted upon by the umpire in charge. No protests will be considered after a game is​

completed per ASA rules."

And here's what Stingrays was last weekend ...

"PROTESTS

In light of the Sportsmanship Guidelines listed earlier, we would surely hope that teams do not resort to a protest. However, if it does, the following will apply:
1. Cost will be $150 cash payable by the protesting team and will go directly to the Stefanie Spielman Fund whether the protest is won or not.
2. Protests will be directed to the Umpire-In-Chief and will be resolved by the following:
- Umpire-In-Chief
- Tournament Director
- Assistant Tournament Director"

The Stefanie Spielman Fund is certainly a very worthwhile charity, but I'm not sure it still qualifies as a charitable deduction if it's due to a protest fee!

So one other question ... is the time clock suspended while all of this is going on?

 

[default]

In a tournament setting, most often you will want the protest to be ruled on right away. That helps to keep things on schedule as far as time limits, field availability, having umpires, etc. If feasible, the game should be stopped, then resumed once the protest is ruled upon.

For a league, you're probably going to complete the game at hand, the protest would be reviewed in the ensuing days, then the game resumed at the point of protest at a later date, if needed.

I don't really get the big aversion to protests. How can you even go so far as to imply that filing one is unsportsmanlike (per the Stingrays guidelines above)? How can following a procedure that is perfectly legal and outlined in the rule book, a procedure specifically designed to address the situation of the umpires misinterpreting the playing rules, be considered as unsportsmanlike?

To me, if a team gets robbed by a bad call, ripped off by something entirely not their own fault, then restricting their right to protest strikes me as the unsportsmanlike thing to do! Are teams just supposed to bend over, grab their ankles, smile and enjoy it?

The teams are already paying for the umpires. it just strikes me the wrong way that they should be expected to pay extra to ensure that the right calls are made.

Okay...I'll get down off my soapbox...maybe you can tell that this is a touchy subject for me. I just don't see how limiting a procedure that is aimed at "getting calls right" is a good thing for the game. Besides, I shouldn't get so riled up about this. Usually, all of the money collected from protests goes straight into the umpire's beer fund...;&

 

[default]

I got this call in Orville last weekend in a 14u game. The field we were playing on didn't have a fence running up the 3rd and 1st base side. In the place of the fence was a painted line to mark out of bounds. So on each side of the field there were two lines...one for field of play and the other marking out of bounds. Runner on 3rd with one out. A fly ball was hit to left field in foul territory in which my left fielder had to sprint to make a catch. She catches the ball in fair territory but her momentum carried her over the out of bound line. The umpire immediately called dead ball. The batter was declared out but because my left fielder ran past the out of bounds line the umpire awarded the runner on 3rd home.

Since I've never seen or been in that situation I had no clue whether it was the correct call. Honestly, I think that the runner likely would have scored on a tag up but who knows. I didn't argue because I honestly had no clue what is correct.

 

[default]

With partners like this...who needs coaches!

One of the most basic premises of umpiring is that when you're out there with a partner, you are a team. Openly criticizing your partner is perhaps the most unprofessional behavior an umpire can exhibit. We have a name for this...throwing your partner under the bus.

Now on the next close play...the base umpire's credibilty has been totally undermined (which is to say, the umpiring team's credibility has been undermined). You're just setting yourself up to have your calls questioned by the coaches, because you have already planted the seed of doubt in their minds that these umpires aren't credible.

There's enough ways that trouble can find you on the field that you don't really need to be creating your own problems! This is simple game management- this umpire's open criticism of his partner can snowball and create more arguments, more questioning of calls and a loss of control of the game.

This reminds me of a CUSA game I was watching in Huntington WV. Marshall University was playing UAB and a batter had a check swing on a pitch. The behind the plate umpire steps out after the pitch and points down the line at the field umpire(positioned behind 3rd) asking for help on the swing. The field umpire was day dreaming and doesn't make a call. The behind the plate umpire then becomes very animated asking for the call. The field umpire...and at this point you could see the realization creeping in...makes the only call he could after falling asleep. He gives the safe sign.

Then the behind the plate umpire does something that I've never seen before...he completely sold his partner out. While putting his mask back on he turns to the crowd and very animatedly rolls his eyes. This drew some hoots and chuckles from the crowd. There was no excuse for the field umpire to lose his focus, but the behind the plate umpire selling out his partner was unprofessional and inexcusable in my opinion. Especially at a D1 level.