Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Crow Hopping

We are getting ready to play a team that rumor has it has a pitcher that has been taught to crow hop. This is for the leauge championship and we just want a fair game. Does anybody have a ASA rulebook that can look that up word for word for us. We have the NSA book but we beleive the leauge goes by Ohio High School rules which we beleive is ASA. Any information would be great.

STILL WON'T GET AN UMPIRE TO CALL IT!!

http://www.nfhs.org/web/2008/02/softball_video_clips__training.aspx

ASA and High school are basically the same. I agree getting an umpire to call it is another matter. I was told all the high school umpires got the above. Mine must have been sleeping thru the presentation. I couldn't get a replant in three games with a pitcher that was off the rubber by more than 2 inchs' so good luck!

So how is it that the umpires get to choose witch rules to ignore. My daughter use to crow hop all the time, until we switched her pitching coach. It's fix now. But, I think she was the only one ever call on this elusive rule. And, I still see many girls crow hopping and leaping with no penalty called.

Bretman made a good post on this subject. You go to the base umpire. That is who must make the call, not ?from home plate. You explain the rule to him and see if he agrees with the rule. I never go to him and say the pitcher is doing ?such and such. I let him agree with me and then he will watch for it. Still getting him to call it is tough. I carry about every manual including the umpire casebook. Still you can be 100% correct and not get it called. Watch NCAA ?on TV , it's worse. I ?finally saw a pitcher called for the 24 Inch rule, but getting an illegal pitch call is rare. ?I had the same problem. My dd got a good pitching coach that taught her to drag the back foot. I see others rock off the rubber replant and pitch and never get called. Others jump and the foot never touches the ground. So good luck.

Nice way to approach it SBFamily. I'll use that tomorrow. Come on Bretman where are you on this one.

SBFamily just watched that link. Wish i had the tech. and know how to burn it and take it along with the portable dvd player. Well if we get the old guy it's not going to matter. He sits his butt behind the plate and doesn't move. Sometime we wonder if he's breathing.

I have never seen anyone crow hop, I have seen alot of leaping though. Crow hop is easy to call. Leap isnt. THe video clip shows it well.

Pitching illegal is a sore spot with me. I know the umpires have a tough gig. Calling a great strike zone can be tough knowing all the rules can be tough but illegal pitching is so easy to spot.

I do not understand how an umpire can ever miss this call! It really doesnt take alot of skill to identify most pitching infractions.
Is a little tougher for the home plate umpire but even from there you can pick out the obvious ones quite easily.
It is not like it is so fast they cant see it. A field judge has no excuse at all.

Leap - did the foot fly off pitchers plate and not drag. Dont throw in they can be in the air as they go down from the plate to the ground either that is easy to tell too.

Basic Crow Hop - If you cant tell this turn in your umpire gear

Advanced Crow/Replant - I little more challenging but watch a video one time and you know what to look for.

Unless maybe it is your first day on the job there cant be much of a defense as these are usually quite obvious.

There are only a couple possibilities.
1. They just dont have any training at all
2. They dont want to deal with the coaches that will throw a fit because they have gotten away with it for a long time.

Just saw it this weekend - umpire did warn a pitcher about leaping. Was ridiculously obvious. Coach went crazy.

Are you serious - if you are a coach and it isnt your 1st day on the job you know if your pitcher is legal or not.

The only thing i expect in any sport is a level playing field. You can get so much of an advantage from illegal pitching that it cant be stood for. Pitchers rule softball so why are you letting them cheat. This simple call can decide which team wins a game. Think about it. If a pitcher has to pitch legal and their speed comes down a bit alot of games outcomes could change.

Perhaps Bret can shed some light on why this isnt called.

I fully expect some people to say "well you cant call it over and over the game will last forever and will be a mess" that is garbage. Call it as many times as it happens. Most of these pyschotic win at all cost coaches will eventually pull their pitcher if they dont adapt and you better believe the next time they see that umpire they will be legal.

Letting these girls cheat does them no justice later on - root it out of the game.

My name is thatguy2120 and I approve this message

Very helpful information. I have a possibly dumb question. "Ephus" pitch, legal or illegal? Never seen anything like it.

Remember, as SBFamily said, it is the base umpires call on this, not the home plate ump. The home plate ump has the 24" pitching rubber violation, not crow hopping, leaping, etc.

But as everyone has said, GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm limited on the rules of pitching but I was told that the pitcher had to have both feet on the mound when starting her motion. well this pitcher touch the mound then placed her foot about 2-3 inches behind the mound then started her back motion. and her foot never came in contact on the mound after. Now I know ours has both feet on top of the mound when she starts her delivery so I can see the difference. Was this a legal pitch?

Depends who governs the game. We had the same issue at a usssa tournement on the opposing team. We looked it up and found in usssa you can bring your non pivot foot behind the rubber. I believe in NSA and ASA both feet must be in contact.

correct - USSSA allows the pitcher to step back wit the plant foot. Believe High School allows this as well? Drives me nuts for some reason.

It drives me crazy that pitching violations are not called!! > ?It is a rule and should be enforced by the umpires.

We were in a game where a girl was taking a step off the rubber then going into her wind up!! ?When we mentioned it the home plate umpire told us to have our caoch mention it to the base umpire. ?It was his call to make. ?As it happens the coaches on her team heard us talking about it and talked to their pitcher. ?She stopped doing it but it took about 3-5 mph off her pitch! ?

My dd used to leap badly. ?I took some OFC advice and corrected it. ?

it was ASA,

I was surprised to see the call made several times at the Willoughby tournament this past weekend (14u)

Thanks for everyones help. Game starts in 90 minutes! Wish em luck!

Well it was 15-5 and only about a 1 foot crow hop. We didn't make an issue of it because we jump out to a 5 run lead in the first. Thanks for all the input anyhow everyone.

i agree w/ stephy, willoughby had its fair share of crow hopping calls, even when it wasn't warranted. i was watchin some 14u games and was getting frustrated and it wasnt even my DD's game