Does ohio need a Philosophical change ?

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• Mar 23, 2009

• #1

Just dropped a several hundred bucks and a entire fri-sat sun worth of time to play in an indoor tourney with 1 hour time limit games . Fort Wayne to be exact, but NOT picking on the doom per se just any indoor tourney with 1 hr game times. So we go 2-2 on the weekend. We play a total 4 hours . 4 games 1 hour each. one of the games ends 16-0. I think it would be fair to say our kids did'nt get a whole lot out of that one.

So my brain got rolling and I thought "OK, our families spent at least 350 bucks X 11 players plus the entry fee for the team" Thats over 4 grand. We could have rented ANY indoor facilty in ohio , invited 2-3 solid teams over and done entire days worth of games. We could play 4-6 games. Heck if you split the cost between the 2-4 teams you spend a ton less than the 4 grand the team and families spent. More importantly you control the environment. Want to stop to teach a girl something ? Go for it. Want to see how your kids react to certain situation ? Go for it .

The bottom line I guess is why do we keep signing up for 1 hour time limit tournies ? They charge a bunch and you get very little game time for the investment. I know facilities need to make a profit , I'm a small business guy. So what is everyone else's opinion ?

or to phrase in another way --should we be moving towards less tournies and more "friendlies" as our friends to the west call them ? a DH with some of our own local competetion on sunday with 6-7 inning games would have been just as, or more , informative . Or maybe I'm just pizzed because we did'nt win it ? thoughts ? MD

 

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• Mar 23, 2009

• #2

After playing last winter at spano in there winter NSA tourney with 1 hour time limits we came to that end and this year skipped the indoor touney and instead took the team to the 14u team camp at Kent and then the following week for less than 200 bucks took the team to spano to play in the ice 12 team scrimmage were we played 3 back to back to back games with 1:20 minute times and 10 minutes between games against some tough teams and had more fun and got more out of it than we did playing the tourney were you might play a 7am hour long game then not again till 3-4 in the afternoon in the dead of winter with no shade tree to lay under.The scrimmages got us 4-5 hours of straight ball and then out the door.Hope there are more of these next winter.

 

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• Mar 23, 2009

• #3

Thats why my team went more for the Fall play and no indoor tournaments this year. Just did not see the value (vs dollars spent). It was great to play some other teams but overall I think that we are done with the indoor tournaments.

We are leaning more towards Fall tournaments and we have always done friendlies. Next year we will play two Fall tournaments and see what we need to work on going into the winter months.

As far as friendlies go this is by far the best way to go. Especially if you can find four teams who are somewhat at the same skill level or higher then you are. Play a 3 game round robin and allow 2 hours per game. We will have a few of these set up this summer ourselves during the week like on a WED afternoon and early evening if anyone is interested. (14U / 16U or 18U)

 

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• Mar 23, 2009

• #4

You ought to check out the indoor tournaments Sudden Death puts on at their facility in Middletown. Relaxed, laid back and the all nighters have DJ's and a basketball court and movies for the girls during down time.

 

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• Mar 23, 2009

• #5

MD - totally agree with your train of thought. Went to the Carrier/Bustos coaches clinic a few weekends back, and Ms. Bustos was almost laughing at us here in Ohio that we would put up with, and continue to pay for, tournies with 1 hour time limits.

 

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• Mar 23, 2009

• #6

i agree dan and i think you will see more of that thought we are even taking it a little farther instead of playing 10 or 11 summer tournys we are playing 8 and filling them in with some multi team scrimmages where we will split up cost of umpire if this is not totally about trophy hunting and about developing girls this format can definately do that.

 

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• Mar 24, 2009

• #7

We did a few 4 team round robin friendly's last fall. Great because you can choose your competition level. We played all of the games to win, but also felt enough of a work out theme to try different things, instruct on the field at key moments, and even use a little time at the end to manufacture specific situations that we needed to work on (getting runner in from 3rd, or stopping that run, for example). Whole thing cost $210.00 total for two umpires, divided by 4 teams, with each team get 3 games plus the work out time.

Might be something to look at next year again, and possibly in the winter also as suggested above.

 

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• Mar 24, 2009

• #8

speaking of a scrimmage

Scrimmage March 28
Looking for a second year 12-u team or a 13-u team that would be interested in coming to the Spano Dome in Akron for a 4:00 scrimmage on March 28th. If interested call Dan at 330-807-1209

 

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• Mar 24, 2009

• #9

I have always disagreed with any time limits... especially unreasonable ones with an hour time limit. Big waste of money in my opinion.

 

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• Mar 24, 2009

• #10

I also agree -I am a big fan of tournaments in the summer and a few in the fall but winter should be friendlies. I am going to try to coordinate a few in the Columbus area next year at All Stars - nice facility plus high ceiling and can play 9. I know that the Stingrays had thought about it also. If we could get the high level teams to participate in Ohio that would be great. The Spano field was very good but there were too many teams allowed in. That was the biggest issue.

Coach Murph

 

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• Mar 24, 2009

• #11

unless the upper level teams play each other much more often the whole state will lag behind the west , and Ind. is producing very good depth at the 12-14 U levels right now. I want ohio to be recognized as producing the best kids in the midwest, not any other state. But winter tournies with hr time limits are not helping the cause any. IMO.

Just want to say I appreciate the indoor facilities, they are worthy of support . Just in a different way. Get away from short time limits and promote yourself to the top org's. They will support you. We are nuts over the game, just hope we can all get steered in a direction that helps the kids with college aspirations. MD

 

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• Mar 25, 2009

• #12

Being only a parent, and a rookie at that, the friendlies concept seems like a no-brainer for new teams, teams that want to get sharp before a torunament. Is this a case where everybody is afraid to take the first step? The financial considerations alone would make this a great idea. So what am I missing?

 

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• Mar 25, 2009

• #13

philbob--being able to control the competetion level is huge for both the newcomers and the experienced . Thats one of the many advantages. One of the main factors ohio has in catching up to the west coasters in that they constantly play tough competetion. Our kids see it for a few games a month. MD

 

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• Mar 26, 2009

• #14

Well, if I was in charge of anything, instead of being a lowly rookie parent, I would surely pursue this for my team. It would also mean a lot more commitment on the part of the team and families, since there would be more games played, I would think. My dd's team is has just 6 tournaments on the schedule, at least that we're aware of.

 

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• Apr 28, 2011

• #15

After two years.. since the thread opened.. what "new" philosphical points has anyone learned ?

 

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• Apr 28, 2011

• #16

I wish that we could play friendlies this year, because we have had really good experiences with them in the past. But the team's twin goals this year of qualifying for ASA/USA and of appearing before as many college coaches as possible have really restricted the time that we can devote to friendlies. There are five ASA/USA qualifier tournaments and we have also received invitations to Stingrays and GAPSS. Our final tournament in July is Mid-West All Sanctions, which also attracts some college coaches and which offers a 5 game guarantee.

Especially given the fact that HS ball will be playing late into May to allow for the determination of conference/league championships, there just wasn't any room for weekend friendlies this year. We are still hoping to set up a few mid-week friendlies during the summer.

 

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• Apr 28, 2011

• #17

Thanks OQM for resurrecting this thread. I'd like to hear how it went from people that tried more friendlies - what worked and what didn't.

Besides friendlies, we also set up doubleheaders with a comparable team. The first game is a regular 7 inning game. The second one is used to work on situations by starting each inning with a different combination of runners on base. This might be a feasible option for midweek games during the summer.

 

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• Apr 28, 2011

• #18

SoCal:

We played some of our friendlies last year as situational games and it was very helpful.

 

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• Apr 28, 2011

• #19

SoCal Dad said:

Thanks OQM for resurrecting this thread. I'd like to hear how it went from people that tried more friendlies - what worked and what didn't.

Besides friendlies, we also set up doubleheaders with a comparable team. The first game is a regular 7 inning game. The second one is used to work on situations by starting each inning with a different combination of runners on base. This might be a feasible option for midweek games during the summer.

Click to expand...

This is what our team has done quit a bit last fall, and this spring. Very helpful and lets the coaches see where they need to focus attention in the trouble areas......Our team is playing in 11 tournaments this year, will be less next year due to 4 will be HS aged and will have to either pick up to play some or wait till these girls get done.

 

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• Apr 28, 2011

• #20

Never been a fan of the indoor games. It's just not real ball.

With the time limits, I haven't talked with other college coaches about this, but I'd be interested to hear their thoughts. Our games last at least 90 minutes and often more than two hours. When girls are playing one 75 minute game after another, especially pitchers, many aren't mentally ready to play seven-inning, 120-minute games in college. High school isn't the same in most cases, especially for pitchers. A college pitcher might have struck out 1 to 2 batters per inning in high school, but she's lucky if she gets 1 per inning in college. All of those old strike threes are now foul balls or plain balls and the game lasts longer.

I had never been a proponent of time limits when I coached travel ball, and now having coached college, I have yet another reason to not like time limits. Guarantee three full games instead of four time-limited games. You'll play about the same number of innings, pitchers will be forced to have more endurance and the entire team's mental concentration will be forced to improve.