How Does an Ohio Travel Team Best Generate College Players and Is That the Primary Goal?

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Hitter 23's "edit" raises a point that I didn't make explicit, but that plays a huge role in my analysis. I do not assume that we will ever in our travel ball coaching experience have a single player that will get a full ride on athletic money alone. If that happens, we will consider ourselves lucky. But for the most part those players are going to Chicago to complete their travel ball experience. The hard cold facts, as I understand them, are that Ohio softball players who receive offers to play in college, even from the top Ohio travel ball programs, don't usually get full athletic rides. College coaches are usually looking to academic and need-based money to make the college acceptance work. Just getting in is not the complete issue for me, unless the player's family tells me that they understand they will need to pay as much as 100% of tuition and room & board (or qualify for enough need-based assistance) if their daughter is going to play in college. At that point, I haven't created any expectations for that family by styling the team as a "college exposure" team, other than the expectations 1) that the player has the stuff to make the college team; and 2) that she has the base credentials to get into the school.

For families seeking educational opportunities resulting from a combination of athletic and academic aid, the academic performance of the player is critical to both the questions of ability to get admitted to the institution (and that will vary from school to school) and to the question of getting a package that allows the player the financial means to accept any offer.

So maybe the resolution is to ask the player and her family what she expects with respect to the college question. If she has the financial means to pay for any college that she gets into, I guess her grades really aren't any of my business. But if she wants a combination of academic and athletic aid to make college a possibility, then I think I have a right to know how she is doing academically. Because there may be another player with the same aspirations who has the same level of athletic skills and is kicking butt academically.

Please be aware that I understand that this whole issue is complicated and that there are nuances, such as the learning disability issue, that make it hard to give black or white answers. I'm just hoping that the dialogue helps me to decide whether I vote for "train from the cradle" or "retool at 16u" as we face decisions for next year and helps for families to consider what they want from a college exposure team and what questions to ask during the upcoming tryout season.

 

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Carol in my opinion another issues to consider when discussing re tooling is whether to keep college kids on an exposure team, My thoughts were always to have a team that was half and half. 16 and 18 mix that way once the kids go off to college your only re tooling half your team with other kids that are hungry to get to that next level. This season has a different feel, having more than 1/3 in college, the majority committed and only 2 that are looking we as a team seem to have a different view of the game. I preach intensity purpose and focus and that seems to be the 3 things we as a team have been missing all season.

On the bright side as poorly as we have played as a unit compared to last season we have at every tournament been followed by and asked by coaches about the 2 we have available. so this season will not be a total wash.

I believe in the future if I decide to return to the CE type format which by the way has been to me the most enjoyable coaching I have ever had the privilege to be a part of I will defiantly seek to have more non committed players vs just playing 18,s. I think I miss the feel of the game when there is more on the line than just wins and losses. As this season proves that although coaches will follow teams that have a huge winning record they will also look for that diamond in the rough.


Tim

 

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Carol...I think you need to really ask yourself "What am I trying to accomplish as a coach?" and that will guide your decision as to what direction you should take your team. If you are merely trying to get your team exposure to college coaches, then sit in the 16U ranks and get in with all the college coaches, and be enough of a salesman that you can attract the best talent to your team from other programs that have developed the talent. Their are numerous "great" coaches in Ohio, who frequent this forum, that have made quite a name for themselves plucking up the talent other have worked so hard to develop...and they in turn have the ability to market those players...so be it.

Then you have the coaches that are in it to teach the game and develop the players...that spend so much time becoming better coaches by attending clinics, seeking knowledge, that little time is left to "smooze" college coaches. Those kinds of coaches rightfully so get a little upset when their star players is plucked out from under their wing, but find great pride and accomplishment in knowing that that player got to where they are because of their help and knowledge.

Me personally...I have tried to fill both shoes and find more joy in teaching of fundamentals and the joy of the game then chasing college scholarships. I know that if I am a great coach, and develop my athletes, the college ball playing will take care of itself, no matter what team it is on...I take a lot of pride in that.

 

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Sammy wrote:
"IMO, intrusive or not, a showcase team coach has every right to require a minimum core grade average."

In my opinion this is not true!

I am not a lawyer but have tried to stay as up to date in discrimination due to learning disabilities. Requiring a minimum grade point average on a SOFTBALL team not affiliated with a school could be illegal discrimination under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). Even the NCAA had to modify their eligibilty criteria due to a ADA lawsuit. Here is one site that outlines a few cases: Department of Justice ADA Settlements and Consent Agreements

Also, their are privacy requirements in the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA) and Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA) that I would doubt the typical travel coach would be familiar with. I've been dealing with these as a parent for 12 years and still am baffled by the rules.

If my daughter was ever cut from a travel youth sports team soley because of grades, I would definitely consider legal action!

Can you forward the link that would support your grounds for legall action. I would be very interested in reading about it. I looked at the link your provided and couldn't recognize the POI. I promise you that there are teams at the showcase level that require many different things of interested players - including certain grades. If that isn't Kosher people need to know.

BTW - in your opinion how does the NFCA or other organizations get away with having "academic" skills camps. These are definately restrictive and players MUST have certain grades and scores.

 

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Interesting some of you wouldn't let Bustos play for you because of her grades? She was LD. Many have a low GPA, but high test scores! Mark we normally agree, but I think the person has a point, coaches are crossing a fine line here. I know many young women with disabilities that have went on and played softball at the highest level. Ask Howard Carrier , he has trained many. I would be willing to bet many of you have players that are LD , but the parents hide it from you.

 

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Interesting some of you wouldn't let Bustos play for you because of her grades? She was LD. Many have a low GPA, but high test scores! Mark we normally agree, but I think the person has a point, coaches are crossing a fine line here. I know many young women with disabilities that have went on and played softball at the highest level. Ask Howard Carrier , he has trained many. I would be willing to bet many of you have players that are LD , but the parents hide it from you.

I am not saying I agree or don't agree. I am just trying to get educated on this. The team I am with now happens to have all very, very good students and it translates to high GPA's. Because of things I have been told by coaches we have always shy'd away from kids that don't fit that criteria. If in fact that is an "illegal" practice I need to understand it. I have a list of things I shy away from when talking to potential players families - grades are just one of them.

Don't take my comments the wrong way. I know there are many, many young people that don't fit into the convential GPA standards. I also know everyone needs to have opportunities. I just didn't think having that on our list was seen as an issue . Maybe I need to rethink it.

Now if the other things on my list need to be rethought please tell me now while I am in the mood to consider options....lol

* Loud, annoying, abrasive parents - no
* If the first question is can I still guest for other teams - no
* Played for 3 teams last year - no
* Email address is "partygirlthatplayssoftball" - no
* Is known as a bad teammate - no
* Talks bad about former player, coaches and teams - no

I know I am leaving some out, but hopefully I can better understand the GPA discussion better.

 

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GPA is important but; I would not release a player because of it.

The player and Parents need to have "realistic" expectations as does the coach... not 100% are going on to the next level even though we all try to get them there...

As a coach you can guide and help players to JC programs and schools that have "good credit recovery programs" to help them stay eligible.

Not that I recruit from GPA but, I have been blessed the past three years with having players that have done well academically... but, with that being said; I would help the IEP/504 or any other struggling student achieve their goals as much as possible if they were part of our team or just looking for help...

 

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Interesting some of you wouldn't let Bustos play for you because of her grades? She was LD. Many have a low GPA, but high test scores! Mark we normally agree, but I think the person has a point, coaches are crossing a fine line here. I know many young women with disabilities that have went on and played softball at the highest level. Ask Howard Carrier , he has trained many. I would be willing to bet many of you have players that are LD , but the parents hide it from you.

I wouldent just to see the reaction on her face. Then I would tell her to get her bat and get ready to nuke a ball

 

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I think most on this forum know the difference between lack of a work ethic and a learning disability. Forget the legal aspects - I think all would agree that to knowingly cut an otherwise physically superior athlete with a qualified learning disability is flat out wrong. I'm sure they are out there, but they would not be a coach I would associate with. I think it is a state or federal law that colleges/universities that receive public funds must provide accommodation to qualified persons with disabilities - including college softball players. I think it would be quite a stretch to claim a travel coach is discriminating against a learning disability by asking for a grade card. I would think the proper thing to do would be for parents to have a discussion with the coach beforehand about it - which I know happens quite often. I'm confident that the coaches frequenting this forum have the player's best interest at heart, and that includes NOT discriminating.

 

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Interesting thread, enough so to compell a lurker Like me who has mainly used this fourm to educate myself and my kids as related to their goals, and to find competative outlets for dd to play, to post a reply....

First, back to topic question, which, in my opinion, needs dialed in with a few assumptions. My assumptions that guide my next points are:
1. Ohio based travel team.
2. Generating college players IS THE GOAL the team or the organization.
3. "college player" = ANY college player inclusive of NAIA, JUCO, d1, d2, d3, ivy league to a prop 48 kid (you guys tossing out the legalities of discrimination have, in my opinion, totally diluted the interesting theme of This thread).

So how to generate them from an OH travel team?

I dont like term generate, so allow me to substitute "assist, promote, and facillitate" in place of generate.

First is to identify student athletes that have this goal. This has to be THE KIDS OWN GOAL, not mom's or dad's. I dont care if they are 13 or 19 or anywhere inbetween ( or even older if circumstances have dictated a delay in the dream). If they start with this dream at 10u, great, but you as a facilitator need to revalidate each individuals commitment to this dream each and every season, from summer to fall to winter, thru school ball and right back into tryouts and next summer. If the KIDS commitment is not there, DONT TAKE THEM NO MATTER WHAT THE TALENT LEVEL. Also, if the kid is accademically challenged, but has the talent and the fire and wants that college education, learn about prop48 or juco options and find a place for them!

Have each kid, as part of the tryout process, or very early after you choose to work with them, WRITE DOWN THEIR GOALS and initial target schools and then REVISIT THESE GOALS AND TARGETS EVERY SEASON.

Second is to provide the instruction and guidance both on and off the field that will position them for success. Recognize this is not just a summer commitment and make sure the kids know that too. This means expose them to the best instruction and guidance that you can productively provide and REMAIN OPENMINDED. You shold not let your personal coaching style or bias limit a kids development or potential. This also means exposing them to as many college camps and seminars as possible, maintain a complete calendar, and teach the kids how to find out about their targrt colleges camps and seminars and to target them on their own as well. Teach the kids and their families about the costs and realities involved. This also means having the difficult conversations EARLY. if u have the kid that has d1 hopes and dreams, but is just never going to be there, help them refocus on realistic goals.

OHIO TRAVEL TEAM: ok, here we go, PLAY THE HIGHEST LEEL OF COMPETITION YOU CAN at all times! This will most likely mean playing outside of ohio as much as feasible. Specifically if you have kids with d1 potential and goals, get them to a premier and gold schedule of events!!!! I dont care about the 16u v 18u debate either, bottom line, a truly interested coach is going to watch either way, and will frankly want to see your kids against the toughest competition available. ASSIDE: recently fired OSU coach kalifatis said straight up to my kid when my daughter asked about her recruiting philosophy (i am slightly paraphrasing, but the meaning is accurate) "I cant afford to recruit at ohio tournaments, i only get so many recruiting days per ncaa rules, i am expected to compete on a national level, and thus i have to recruit at that level". As an example, she said that even if she saw my daughter go 20 for 20 with 5 home runs at the stingrays tourny, it really wouldnt impress her, because she knows dd would not be facing the pitching she would see at a premier or gold event in CA, TX, or FL for example. This stings, and we as ohioans dont want to hear it, but if u have kids that have the goal to play at a major d1 program, u have to get them to the right events (colorado, rising stars events, gatorade and under armor events, adidas futures in utah, the st. Louis fall tournament, ronald mcdonald event in tx, premier events in california, premier qualifier in indy, etc. etc.). The other realization here is that not just any team or organization can get a team in these events, so u have to do what is right for ur kids. Best case is we would develop our teams and organizations from oh such that we could get into these events, and if not, but u have a kid that should be there, pound the phone for them! Call the college coaches that want to see them and they will ask travel coaches they have relationships with to take your kid as a sub for a weekend, etc. Swallow the ego and think outside the box!

Obviously, if the goal is more mid-major, regional, or d2, d3, etc. Focus on the events that those coaches will be at. HOWEVER, IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY AND DUTY AS THE TRAVEL BALL COACH OR FACILITATOR TO FOSTOR AND DEVELOP THE RELATIONSHIPS with the college coaches of your players target schools!

ANOTHER ASSIDE: my kid was late to the recruiting game, and realized as a jr. In high school she wanted to play at a major program, but by then all the scholarship $ is gone as well as almost all of the roster spots.... So she starts pounding cracks in the system, like every d1 that had a recent coaching change, or any kind of angle she could. One of these emails led to an invite to the elite camp at Arkansas. She had a great camp, and even though coach larrabee and coach carpenter (formally from wright state) were fully committed and had no spot for her, she met a coach from a well connected Louisiana travel team organization. This coach took an interest, and made a few calls.... He had cell phone numbers for over half the sec head coaches or head recruiters as well as most all the sun belt conf. Within 15 min he had spoken directly to several head coaches on my daughters behalf. This led to over 4 campus visits and a couple of offers within a few weeks! My point is not about my kid, my point is how many of us in ohio that are driving travel ball organizations have the contacts and CREDIBILITY with our kids target coaching community, that we can make those types of introductions?!

My final point is, yes grades are important and the accademic side is ultimately what it is all about, but dont discount that prop48 or the kid that will have to pound it out thru juco or a community college program first.... What graeter impact could we have than helping a kid like that get an education that they never would have had the chance for, had it not been for this "game"?

 

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First, back to topic question, which, in my opinion, needs dialed in with a few assumptions. My assumptions that guide my next points are:
1. Ohio based travel team.
2. Generating college players IS THE GOAL the team or the organization.
3. "college player" = ANY college player inclusive of NAIA, JUCO, d1, d2, d3, ivy league to a prop 48 kid (you guys tossing out the legalities of discrimination have, in my opinion, totally diluted the interesting theme of This thread).

So how to generate them from an OH travel team?

I dont like term generate, so allow me to substitute "assist, promote, and facillitate" in place of generate.

First is to identify student athletes that have this goal. This has to be THE KIDS OWN GOAL, not mom's or dad's. I dont care if they are 13 or 19 or anywhere inbetween ( or even older if circumstances have dictated a delay in the dream). If they start with this dream at 10u, great, but you as a facilitator need to revalidate each individuals commitment to this dream each and every season, from summer to fall to winter, thru school ball and right back into tryouts and next summer. If the KIDS commitment is not there, DONT TAKE THEM NO MATTER WHAT THE TALENT LEVEL. Also, if the kid is accademically challenged, but has the talent and the fire and wants that college education, learn about prop48 or juco options and find a place for them!

Have each kid, as part of the tryout process, or very early after you choose to work with them, WRITE DOWN THEIR GOALS and initial target schools and then REVISIT THESE GOALS AND TARGETS EVERY SEASON.

Second is to provide the instruction and guidance both on and off the field that will position them for success. Recognize this is not just a summer commitment and make sure the kids know that too. This means expose them to the best instruction and guidance that you can productively provide and REMAIN OPENMINDED. You shold not let your personal coaching style or bias limit a kids development or potential. This also means exposing them to as many college camps and seminars as possible, maintain a complete calendar, and teach the kids how to find out about their targrt colleges camps and seminars and to target them on their own as well. Teach the kids and their families about the costs and realities involved. This also means having the difficult conversations EARLY. if u have the kid that has d1 hopes and dreams, but is just never going to be there, help them refocus on realistic goals.

OHIO TRAVEL TEAM: ok, here we go, PLAY THE HIGHEST LEEL OF COMPETITION YOU CAN at all times! This will most likely mean playing outside of ohio as much as feasible. Specifically if you have kids with d1 potential and goals, get them to a premier and gold schedule of events!!!! I dont care about the 16u v 18u debate either, bottom line, a truly interested coach is going to watch either way, and will frankly want to see your kids against the toughest competition available. ASSIDE: recently fired OSU coach kalifatis said straight up to my kid when my daughter asked about her recruiting philosophy (i am slightly paraphrasing, but the meaning is accurate) "I cant afford to recruit at ohio tournaments, i only get so many recruiting days per ncaa rules, i am expected to compete on a national level, and thus i have to recruit at that level". As an example, she said that even if she saw my daughter go 20 for 20 with 5 home runs at the stingrays tourny, it really wouldnt impress her, because she knows dd would not be facing the pitching she would see at a premier or gold event in CA, TX, or FL for example. This stings, and we as ohioans dont want to hear it, but if u have kids that have the goal to play at a major d1 program, u have to get them to the right events (colorado, rising stars events, gatorade and under armor events, adidas futures in utah, the st. Louis fall tournament, ronald mcdonald event in tx, premier events in california, premier qualifier in indy, etc. etc.). The other realization here is that not just any team or organization can get a team in these events, so u have to do what is right for ur kids. Best case is we would develop our teams and organizations from oh such that we could get into these events, and if not, but u have a kid that should be there, pound the phone for them! Call the college coaches that want to see them and they will ask travel coaches they have relationships with to take your kid as a sub for a weekend, etc. Swallow the ego and think outside the box!

Obviously, if the goal is more mid-major, regional, or d2, d3, etc. Focus on the events that those coaches will be at. HOWEVER, IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY AND DUTY AS THE TRAVEL BALL COACH OR FACILITATOR TO FOSTOR AND DEVELOP THE RELATIONSHIPS with the college coaches of your players target schools!

ANOTHER ASSIDE: my kid was late to the recruiting game, and realized as a jr. In high school she wanted to play at a major program, but by then all the scholarship $ is gone as well as almost all of the roster spots.... So she starts pounding cracks in the system, like every d1 that had a recent coaching change, or any kind of angle she could. One of these emails led to an invite to the elite camp at Arkansas. She had a great camp, and even though coach larrabee and coach carpenter (formally from wright state) were fully committed and had no spot for her, she met a coach from a well connected Louisiana travel team organization. This coach took an interest, and made a few calls.... He had cell phone numbers for over half the sec head coaches or head recruiters as well as most all the sun belt conf. Within 15 min he had spoken directly to several head coaches on my daughters behalf. This led to over 4 campus visits and a couple of offers within a few weeks! My point is not about my kid, my point is how many of us in ohio that are driving travel ball organizations have the contacts and CREDIBILITY with our kids target coaching community, that we can make those types of introductions?!

My final point is, yes grades are important and the accademic side is ultimately what it is all about, but dont discount that prop48 or the kid that will have to pound it out thru juco or a community college program first.... What graeter impact could we have than helping a kid like that get an education that they never would have had the chance for, had it not been for this "game"?

putmeincoch, very sound advice, and a well thought out reply. More of us should have this kind of approach.

 

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Mark couldn't agree more. Watched many college coaches draw lines thru a kids name, based on actions of parents.