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start poppin the popcorn . lol (BTW - I agree Carol)
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In my opinion a college showcase is for 16u and 18u teams. I have been to Gapps a few times at 12u and have yet seen a college coach at any 12u games. They are there for the older girls only. That does not mean do not have 14u age groups and down not play in the tournament because it does bring some of the best teams in to play against but why not have a big tournament one weekend for 10u - 14u and have another one for 16u - 18u on another weekend. Gapps is well established and a great tournament but I think it is so well known and so many teams try to get in that it could be split into two different weekends now.
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I am not trying hard to justify the Buckeye Heat teams that were accepted. I am trying to respond to your "thoughts to ponder". Those thoughts included "Part of the criteria is A) Big Organization; B) Repeat Customer; and C) (and I hate to say it....) Good Ole' Boys Network". And I remain insulted by the good old boy accusation. That is one of your thoughts that I have pondered and I reject the implication that the Buckeye Heat, the Doom, and the Laser teams got in through a good old boy network. And you need to understand that people will be offended by statements such as yours. You might want to own up to what you have said, which is frankly an insult. You are free to offer such insults as your opinion, but I am also free to call your opinion what it is in my opinion, namely an unwarranted insult.
BTW, do you want to share the application that was submitted by whatever team with which you are affiliated?
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Good points and an interesting suggestion. It's pretty clear on the GAPSS website that they consider the 16u and 18u divisions to be the showcases.
The showcases out here only have 16u and 18u age groups. Like GAPSS, the 14U teams that want to be seen play in 16u.
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Too think, back in December when we made the decision to move the date of the tournament up a week to attract more, better teams and avoid conflicts with Orland Sparks, Addidas 50, NSA WS, etc... people said it was the beginning of the end for the tournament due to woeful mismanagement. Based on the direction this thread has taken, I guess our decision ended up being a good one.
As SoCalDad and others have stated, we realize that college coaches do not attend 10u, 12u and for the most part 14u games, it is why we have a different touranment format and pricing structure for those compared to the 16u/18u.
It has been suggested however that we should expand the 16u/18u age bracket and do away with the younger age brackets. Last year we had 60 teams compared to 50 this year. We made the decision to reduce the number of teams based on a conversation I had with a D1 head coach in September 2010 at their fall camp. The coach didn't recognize me as the GAPSS TD, I was just a dad who took his daughter to their showcase camp. In a conversation with the coach, I asked how the past summer had been from a recruiting perspective, what tourney's had been attended (I knew they were at GAPSS), etc... When GAPSS was mentioned, I asked how the experience was (again I didn't say I was the GAPSS TD). The answer came back "I loved the competition, great tournament, but I spent too much time in a car driving across town from site to site - I probably won't go back next year". I was shocked, we had just had our most successful tournament ever as it related to attracting college coaches yet this coach didn't want to come back. An hour or two later, I had the opportunity to introduce myself as the TD. The coach was embarrassed and apologetic. I explained that without the college coaches we don't have a Showcase and the insight was extremely valueable and we would take it into consideration.
By taking the team count down to 50 we could now play all games on showcase quality fields, on the west side of the district within .75 miles of one another. This is what drove the decision to reduce the team count. There were other things that we did to cater to the college coaches, they were called out in the invitation that was sent to over 200 + coaches in Ohio and surrounding states. They are:
As a showcase tournament we cater to two customers groups - the one that pays (teams) and the one that doesn't (college coaches). It is important to understand that we are constantly trying to balance both and sometimes doing something for one may have a negative impact on another (ie 50 to 60 teams). But I will discuss that on another thread.
As SoCalDad and others have stated, we realize that college coaches do not attend 10u, 12u and for the most part 14u games, it is why we have a different touranment format and pricing structure for those compared to the 16u/18u.
It has been suggested however that we should expand the 16u/18u age bracket and do away with the younger age brackets. Last year we had 60 teams compared to 50 this year. We made the decision to reduce the number of teams based on a conversation I had with a D1 head coach in September 2010 at their fall camp. The coach didn't recognize me as the GAPSS TD, I was just a dad who took his daughter to their showcase camp. In a conversation with the coach, I asked how the past summer had been from a recruiting perspective, what tourney's had been attended (I knew they were at GAPSS), etc... When GAPSS was mentioned, I asked how the experience was (again I didn't say I was the GAPSS TD). The answer came back "I loved the competition, great tournament, but I spent too much time in a car driving across town from site to site - I probably won't go back next year". I was shocked, we had just had our most successful tournament ever as it related to attracting college coaches yet this coach didn't want to come back. An hour or two later, I had the opportunity to introduce myself as the TD. The coach was embarrassed and apologetic. I explained that without the college coaches we don't have a Showcase and the insight was extremely valueable and we would take it into consideration.
By taking the team count down to 50 we could now play all games on showcase quality fields, on the west side of the district within .75 miles of one another. This is what drove the decision to reduce the team count. There were other things that we did to cater to the college coaches, they were called out in the invitation that was sent to over 200 + coaches in Ohio and surrounding states. They are:
- Combining the 16u and 18u age groups into one ?super group?
- Decreasing the number of teams to 50 to showcase an improved quality of play in all games
- Centrally locating all games to within .75 mile of each other to reduce your travel time
- Increasing the 'no new inning' time limit to 1 hour 30 minutes for more evaluation time
- Increasing the game guarantee to 5 games - 4 scheduled showcase games on Friday and Saturday and then each team will be entered into the single elimination tournament
- Utilizing a 'blind draw' for establishing the single elimination tournament brackets. This will allows travel coaches to focus on showcasing their players talents without the concern of losing a pool play game and impacting their bracket seeding
- Providing colored wrist bands to all players participating in the 16u/18u age group. Each wrist band colors will denote a high school graduation year
- Preventing current college players from playing in the tournament
- Providing a ?college coaches only? hospitality tent catered with complimentary food and drinks
As a showcase tournament we cater to two customers groups - the one that pays (teams) and the one that doesn't (college coaches). It is important to understand that we are constantly trying to balance both and sometimes doing something for one may have a negative impact on another (ie 50 to 60 teams). But I will discuss that on another thread.
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Gapps-TD
Love what you guy's are doing with these changes. This is a great weekend to have it. Look forward to meeting you.
Warren Wolff
Ohio Outlaws
Love what you guy's are doing with these changes. This is a great weekend to have it. Look forward to meeting you.
Warren Wolff
Ohio Outlaws
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maybe 10u/12u should be eliminated. last year at 12u i felt we where brushed aside(rain out for our team). can't help to think manpower to get the older team fields ready played a part. I understand since it was a college showcase.
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haveaclue:
10u, 12u, and 14u were the only age groups to complete their tournaments and play championship games on the field. 16u/18u was completely canceled due to the weather and so that we could put all our efforts into getting fields ready for the younger age groups. This decision was made in part because there are little to no college coaches around on Sundays (especially in the rain) - the 16u/18u teams got their college exposure on Fridays and Saturdays
10u, 12u, and 14u were the only age groups to complete their tournaments and play championship games on the field. 16u/18u was completely canceled due to the weather and so that we could put all our efforts into getting fields ready for the younger age groups. This decision was made in part because there are little to no college coaches around on Sundays (especially in the rain) - the 16u/18u teams got their college exposure on Fridays and Saturdays
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haveaclue needs to get a clue . anyway , thanks for the hard work you put in GAPSS TD. You obviously have the kids best interest at heart. MD
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Gapps.. there is no way I would want to be in your shoes putting this tournament together. There are always going to be those Monday Morning Quaterbacks out there that think it could be done better. Looks to me that you have choosen some great teams at all ages. Static 97 is really looking forward to being part of some great competition this year..
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gapss-td.my reply was not ment to be sarcastic. i do know 12u played. we did get the call that we were out. drove home not a cloud in the sky. we will be there this year. just hope because of all the rain. you learned alittle bit more. and will adjust.
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Unfortunately, rain on Sunday of a double elimination tournament doesn't leave a lot of choices except for dropping the losers bracket. It was the right decision for 12u and 14u last year, it would be the right decision this year. On 10u, I made a mistake canceling the losers bracket because I assumed the games were at the same point in bracket play as the 12u/14u. I acknowledged the mistake and apologized to the 10u losers bracket teams - so yes from that perspective I did learn form my experience.
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looking forward to another great tournament. this year will work on staying in the winners bracket/
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I have to laugh when I read on showcase tournament threads like this one and Stingrays that the tournaments should cut the 10U and 12U divisions because the college coaches have no intrest in seeing the younger age groups.
The reputation of these tournaments lead the better teams in 10's and 12's to come together on these weekends and test their team against the best competition they can find. This provides the opportunity for growth in the players by facing great competition for the whole weekend. It is this type of competition and growth that leads to the players developing the skills that college coaches COME to see at 16/18.
The players know even at the younger age groups that to be accepted into these tournaments is a sign of respect for all the hard work they are putting in and the success they have had. They also realize if they do not continue to work hard and face top level competition they may not make it back when the college coaches WANT to see them play.
Lets try to remember that few if any top players in 16/18 just walked onto a top team in 9th or 10th grade. They more likely have been working on their game since they were 9 or 10 and can probly still remember how excited they were when their 10u coach told them they got into a showcase tournament!
The reputation of these tournaments lead the better teams in 10's and 12's to come together on these weekends and test their team against the best competition they can find. This provides the opportunity for growth in the players by facing great competition for the whole weekend. It is this type of competition and growth that leads to the players developing the skills that college coaches COME to see at 16/18.
The players know even at the younger age groups that to be accepted into these tournaments is a sign of respect for all the hard work they are putting in and the success they have had. They also realize if they do not continue to work hard and face top level competition they may not make it back when the college coaches WANT to see them play.
Lets try to remember that few if any top players in 16/18 just walked onto a top team in 9th or 10th grade. They more likely have been working on their game since they were 9 or 10 and can probly still remember how excited they were when their 10u coach told them they got into a showcase tournament!
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Excellent post Rays99 !! How soon parents and coaches forget that their players were 10u once.
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Not to mention that some of the most exciting ball I have seen is at that level. I know as a coach I have great memories of those 10u and 12u teams that I have coached. My daughter has really great memories of playing wiffle ball in the parking lot and doing those annoying cheers. Her and I plan on coaching a 10u team when she is in college - I only hope that she continues to want to and I can continue to able to walk!
Coach Murph
Coach Murph
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Right on Rays99. This is a great and popular tournament. A couple sour grapes should not apply if they don't like the structure. Share your opinions but keep the bltching to yourself. JMHO 
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"Great in theory, sometimes not possible in reality due to time, funds, jobs, family dynamics, other variables. So great for the teams who can and tough luck for those who cannot. But to call out teams and insist they "step up" is a bit condescending don't you think?"
Summer---Not really, you usually don't get invited to the big shows unless you have a track record of playing against the best week in and week out. These orgs you mention do just that week in and week out. Do they win every weekend, no, but they know how to teach the skills needed to showcase their kids and usually have very, very good overall records against the best....
"Agreed and I don't think this is the debate. Was an observation, but I don't believe anyone thinks a 2nd team in the same organization should be left out simply because they already have one in. I think the question was in some instances, are all 3 or 4 teams from the same org, in one age group, really elite? Does one organization really put out 36 quality, D1 caliber players"
Nobody stated they are all D-1 players and that should never be the goal. The goal is to "TRY" and get the girls to be seen by any University, that if the girls felt the fit at that school, then one more door was opened for them.
Couldn't figure out how to Quote prior comments from summer.... sorry..
Summer---Not really, you usually don't get invited to the big shows unless you have a track record of playing against the best week in and week out. These orgs you mention do just that week in and week out. Do they win every weekend, no, but they know how to teach the skills needed to showcase their kids and usually have very, very good overall records against the best....
"Agreed and I don't think this is the debate. Was an observation, but I don't believe anyone thinks a 2nd team in the same organization should be left out simply because they already have one in. I think the question was in some instances, are all 3 or 4 teams from the same org, in one age group, really elite? Does one organization really put out 36 quality, D1 caliber players"
Nobody stated they are all D-1 players and that should never be the goal. The goal is to "TRY" and get the girls to be seen by any University, that if the girls felt the fit at that school, then one more door was opened for them.
Couldn't figure out how to Quote prior comments from summer.... sorry..
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We don't have any plans to do away with the younger age groups.
Also, I would like to ask that we return this tournament thread back to its original purpose - GAPSS tournament updates.
There is a thread focused specifically on what it takes to get selected to a showcase. I think that would be a good place to continue these discussions.
http://www.game-ex.com/vb3/showthread.php?p=334668#post334668
Also, I would like to ask that we return this tournament thread back to its original purpose - GAPSS tournament updates.
There is a thread focused specifically on what it takes to get selected to a showcase. I think that would be a good place to continue these discussions.
http://www.game-ex.com/vb3/showthread.php?p=334668#post334668
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