ASA Tournament ASA background/certifications?

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In the other thread " ASA Berths" you are GLAD for the open discussion on it. In this thread, you complain when I bring the subject up for discussion...LOL :lmao:

consider the content and message in the other post vs the content and my message on this one and ... aaahhh, never mind. You won't see the difference. My guess is this will go on forever...

 

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Amen to Joe!

It's all just a feel good exercise with nearly zero benefit IMHO. Unless you happen to run one of these background check companies or anyone else who may be getting a cut from those small, minor fees.

Yes, my vote is money grab! Security benefit? Negligible.

Can I have an AMEN .... How about it Klump

If you are an org and NOT running your own background checks on your org coaches in the first place... then it is you as an org placing your girls in harm's way.

If you are an ORG doing background check.. I guess ASA is telling you they don't believe you and want you to pay on your own through them.. And by the way, we don't think any OTHER insurance company is CAPABLE of providing GOOD insuarnce so you have to buy it from US as well. :lmao:

Has anyone ever taken the time to figure out who Bollinger is of Bollinger Insuarance

 

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consider the content and message in the other post vs the content and my message on this one and ... aaahhh, never mind. You won't see the difference. My guess is this will go on forever...

You don't see, Lester. The idea is what happened to good old softball with out a CATCH 22 and MONEY GRAB ????

 

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I live with money grabs every day... guess you are the money grab Jedi Master...? Just not a battle I choose to argue.

Since the rules are in place... just enforce them. ASA has their rules and we follow them like it or not. Just don't want to pay or play for shady situations. I'll give ACE the benefit of the doubt... again...

Kinda like having to deal with umpires that tighten my team's strike zone because I'm up by 7 or 8 runs (by a USSSA ump at SWO park and he OPENLY admitted it to my face)... just enforce the rules. I'll let others that have no lives and nothing better to do argue the money grab issues for me. Yes, I've complained about money grabs but now have bigger things to deal with. So go look for my money grab posts now too...

OH yeah, is capitalism a money grab? Free enterprise ok or not? Hmmm... boy did I open a dump truck of issues on that and context usage could bite my prior posts. I'm not that political and consider the pot stirred

 

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Can I have an AMEN .... How about it Klump

If you are an org and NOT running your own background checks on your org coaches in the first place... then it is you as an org placing your girls in harm's way.

If you are an ORG doing background check.. I guess ASA is telling you they don't believe you and want you to pay on your own through them.. And by the way, we don't think any OTHER insurance company is CAPABLE of providing GOOD insuarnce so you have to buy it from US as well. :lmao:

Has anyone ever taken the time to figure out who Bollinger is of Bollinger Insuarance

I want you to look at it this way.

You are responsible for every tournament run here in Ohio, every girl, every coach, and every team. The Responsibility and LIABILITY is yours and yours alone.

Teams will give you background checks that were done for them from Bollinger, High Schools, CYO., Patrick?s background investigation, Uncle Hermits Background Checks etc. And for insurance you get Bollinger, Uncle Mikes Insurance Company, Down Under Insurance Company, MA & PA Hillbilly Insurance etc.

Now do you have the time or desire to check every company to see if the players/coaches/teams had proper background checks that meet your criteria and if so did they pass or fail the background check, or if the insurance is adequate, what the coverage is exactly and if in fact they paid their premiums and are in fact covered.

Or do you think after a short period of time, say a few years, you decide that with the lawsuits you have had and the time you have to put into all this for every tournament that it might just be easier to say everyone needs to get ACE Certified (which includes a background check you find acceptable) and every team or player will have insurance thru Bollinger (which gives the team 3,000,000.00 more in insurance because all coaches are ACE Certified) and this is very easy to verify their insurance. And (maybe just maybe) the insurance company will write you a check for having all these teams/players/coaches go through them.

YES I THINK YOU WOULD DO THE SAME as A.S.A.

Everyone needs to look at it in this manner, and not from the me, me, my, my, mine, mine manner.

 

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I want you to look at it this way.

You are responsible for every tournament run here in Ohio, every girl, every coach, and every team. The Responsibility and LIABILITY is yours and yours alone.

Teams will give you background checks that were done for them from Bollinger, High Schools, CYO., Patrick?s background investigation, Uncle Hermits Background Checks etc. And for insurance you get Bollinger, Uncle Mikes Insurance Company, Down Under Insurance Company, MA & PA Hillbilly Insurance etc.

Now do you have the time or desire to check every company to see if the players/coaches/teams had proper background checks that meet your criteria and if so did they pass or fail the background check, or if the insurance is adequate, what the coverage is exactly and if in fact they paid their premiums and are in fact covered.

Or do you think after a short period of time, say a few years, you decide that with the lawsuits you have had and the time you have to put into all this for every tournament that it might just be easier to say everyone needs to get ACE Certified (which includes a background check you find acceptable) and every team or player will have insurance thru Bollinger (which gives the team 3,000,000.00 more in insurance because all coaches are ACE Certified) and this is very easy to verify their insurance. And (maybe just maybe) the insurance company will write you a check for having all these teams/players/coaches go through them.

YES I THINK YOU WOULD DO THE SAME as A.S.A.

Everyone needs to look at it in this manner, and not from the me, me, my, my, mine, mine manner.

Are you implying that ASA is business? And logic will only get you so far with some...

Parma, AMEN.

 

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I want you to look at it this way.

You are responsible for every tournament run here in Ohio, every girl, every coach, and every team. The Responsibility and LIABILITY is yours and yours alone.

Teams will give you background checks that were done for them from Bollinger, High Schools, CYO., Patrick?s background investigation, Uncle Hermits Background Checks etc. And for insurance you get Bollinger, Uncle Mikes Insurance Company, Down Under Insurance Company, MA & PA Hillbilly Insurance etc.

Now do you have the time or desire to check every company to see if the players/coaches/teams had proper background checks that meet your criteria and if so did they pass or fail the background check, or if the insurance is adequate, what the coverage is exactly and if in fact they paid their premiums and are in fact covered.

Or do you think after a short period of time, say a few years, you decide that with the lawsuits you have had and the time you have to put into all this for every tournament that it might just be easier to say everyone needs to get ACE Certified (which includes a background check you find acceptable) and every team or player will have insurance thru Bollinger (which gives the team 3,000,000.00 more in insurance because all coaches are ACE Certified) and this is very easy to verify their insurance. And (maybe just maybe) the insurance company will write you a check for having all these teams/players/coaches go through them.

YES I THINK YOU WOULD DO THE SAME as A.S.A.

Everyone needs to look at it in this manner, and not from the me, me, my, my, mine, mine manner.

Can I ask, why hasn't any other NATIONAL association such as NSA, USSSA or any other followed this direction? You have to ask yourself that as well.

I guess the "providing a copy of your insurance at check-in" means nothing anymore? Personally, I want a copy as a TD.. not just to look at a page that some coach flips out and shows a TD at check-in.

I mean, the smart thing to do as a TD is to retain a copy of that policy paperwork in your Tournament files for months to come in case of any litigation.

If a coach/org provides FALSE paperwork on their insurance to you at check-in... that's not your fault as a TD. If you, as a TD, have provided "DUE DILIGENCE" by "believing" the team/org that provided you with the insurance paperwork.. because that paperwork shows that insurance is in place ... from a certain date to a certain date .... from the paperwork provided to you at check-in even though it is false... you have done nothing wrong in case of a lawsuit.

It's not my job as a TD to monitor for absolute accuracy and truthfulness of a team/org. ANY ASA team can do the same.. provide you with paperwork that is false. Scan last year's insurance paperwork..change the dates, etc...

Afterall, is there a way for you as a TD to "verify" every insurance policy PRIOR to the tournament or does anyone do that as a TD ? Of course not.

"Due diligence" is the key and a legal remedy for TD's. If you as a TD don't keep a copy for your records of the proof of insurance.. then you get what you deserve. Because the situation could be that you didn't keep that copy, you have NOTHING to go back on and prove you done everything to make sure that the team/org was insured to played in your tournament. Having that paperwork in your file proves that. NOT having that paperwork.. well that's just looking for problems.

 

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I live with money grabs every day... guess you are the money grab Jedi Master...? Just not a battle I choose to argue.

Since the rules are in place... just enforce them. ASA has their rules and we follow them like it or not. Just don't want to pay or play for shady situations. I'll give ACE the benefit of the doubt... again...

Kinda like having to deal with umpires that tighten my team's strike zone because I'm up by 7 or 8 runs (by a USSSA ump at SWO park and he OPENLY admitted it to my face)... just enforce the rules. I'll let others that have no lives and nothing better to do argue the money grab issues for me. Yes, I've complained about money grabs but now have bigger things to deal with. So go look for my money grab posts now too...

OH yeah, is capitalism a money grab? Free enterprise ok or not? Hmmm... boy did I open a dump truck of issues on that and context usage could bite my prior posts. I'm not that political and consider the pot stirred

Free enterprise would be allowing a team/org to CHOOSE their own insurance and not be forced into buy a certain brand. That's free enterprise

 

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Can I ask, why hasn't any other NATIONAL association such as NSA, USSSA or any other followed this direction? You have to ask yourself that as well.

I guess the "providing a copy of your insurance at check-in" means nothing anymore? Personally, I want a copy as a TD.. not just to look at a page that some coach flips out and shows a TD at check-in.

I mean, the smart thing to do as a TD is to retain a copy of that policy paperwork in your Tournament files for months to come in case of any litigation.

If a coach/org provides FALSE paperwork on their insurance to you at check-in... that's not your fault as a TD. If you, as a TD, have provided "DUE DILIGENCE" by "believing" the team/org that provided you with the insurance paperwork.. because that paperwork shows that insurance is in place ... from a certain date to a certain date .... from the paperwork provided to you at check-in even though it is false... you have done nothing wrong in case of a lawsuit.

It's not my job as a TD to monitor for absolute accuracy and truthfulness of a team/org. ANY ASA team can do the same.. provide you with paperwork that is false. Scan last year's insurance paperwork..change the dates, etc...

Afterall, is there a way for you as a TD to "verify" every insurance policy PRIOR to the tournament or does anyone do that as a TD ? Of course not.

"Due diligence" is the key and a legal remedy for TD's. If you as a TD don't keep a copy for your records of the proof of insurance.. then you get what you deserve. Because the situation could be that you didn't keep that copy, you have NOTHING to go back on and prove you done everything to make sure that the team/org was insured to played in your tournament. Having that paperwork in your file proves that. NOT having that paperwork.. well that's just looking for problems.

I would agree Tim, but NSA and PONY both have insurance companys that they push but they just have not yet made it manditory yet. And neither of them have an ACE type thing of training for coaches (as simple as it maybe) Nor do either of them give you $3,000,000.00 more in insurance if you get it.

As far as the its not your fault if they provide false paper work, well i saw the special on tv of the guy who founded Girls Gone Wild where he got jail time because 2 girls gave false IDs and then were video taped. And to top it off he was not even in the state of Florida at the time this happened. So I guess anything can happen when it comes to DAs, Judges and Lawers in our great justice system. Not to mention just to defend yourself if charges are ever brought up against you, even if they have no merit, cost tens of thousands of dollars.

 

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NSA has taken the stance that the team organizations create there own rules and regulations in how they govern themselves. If a team org doesn't require coaches and staff to go thru background checks, it is not the NSA's place to make it mandatory. NSA stays out of items considered "team business" and that is team business. More power to others that require it, but the NSA does not to participate.

OHSAA might be a different bird itself, but I do not profess to be an expert on there regulations. I know to coach our high school bowling team, I had to take an online course on sportmanship this past season. The city of Westerville was different in that they made me go thru background checks just like their employees of the school district do. They fingerprinted, criminal background checked, and had me get TB testing (?). We also did the CPR and Sports Med. training at the Red Cross.

The NSA does know that people like choices and our team insurance choice is a pretty nice one especially our field owners policy ($40/year for $4M in coverage), but we do not make in mandatory to participate. We just make it mandatory that youth teams have a valid team POLICY in effect to participate.

Mark this date down, but I agree with Tim: If you do your due dilligence in collecting the valid copy at check-in along with a valid official NSA roster (not a spreadsheet or notebook paper with girls names written on it), then what more can you do? If your umpires and the teams are all properly sanctioned with the NSA, then the tournament is covered under the NSA policy (umpire & director policy and field owner if purchased) and the NSA stands behind it's directors and officials of the NSA for this.

Mike

I would agree Tim, but NSA and PONY both have insurance companys that they push but they just have not yet made it manditory yet. And neither of them have an ACE type thing of training for coaches (as simple as it maybe) Nor do either of them give you $3,000,000.00 more in insurance if you get it.

 

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why is this in the t-ment section?????

 

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I would agree Tim, but NSA and PONY both have insurance companys that they push but they just have not yet made it manditory yet. And neither of them have an ACE type thing of training for coaches (as simple as it maybe) Nor do either of them give you $3,000,000.00 more in insurance if you get it.

As far as the its not your fault if they provide false paper work, well i saw the special on tv of the guy who founded Girls Gone Wild where he got jail time because 2 girls gave false IDs and then were video taped. And to top it off he was not even in the state of Florida at the time this happened. So I guess anything can happen when it comes to DAs, Judges and Lawers in our great justice system. Not to mention just to defend yourself if charges are ever brought up against you, even if they have no merit, cost tens of thousands of dollars.

Excellent points.

I attended the annual ASA meeting for our association this past weekend and a representative from Bollinger made a presentation. It was made clear the background checks and ACE certifications were added to keep the cost of the coverage down. They mentioned the lawsuit against LL where a player injured his knee while sliding and claimed it was because the coach didn't teach him how to slide properly. The plaintiffs were awarded $125k last summer.

There is/was a similar lawsuit because a HS softball player broke her ankle while sliding.

A lawsuit at our local ASA rec league finally went to trial last Fall. A 12-year-old girl suffered severe mouth injuries a couple years ago from missing a fly ball in practice. The parents blamed the coach and sued him for over $250k. The insurance company made a settlement offer of $100k that the parents turned down. The parents lost their suit due to the insurance company handling of the defense.

These were all injuries that most people would consider inherent risks of playing, but it doesn't stop people from suing and sometimes winning. As PW mentioned, defending yourself from a meritless lawsuit will still cost you a lot of money if you don't have proper insurance coverage.