ASA Tournament ASA background/certifications?

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how do you consider any one league or tournament "the best" many community teams that would have to do this, only play in spring/summer/fall leagues. and it totals to a lot more then 25.00

ASA Tournaments with a ASA/USA bid on the line draw the best teams, thats not a secret lol. How does it total more then $25 dollars? What are you talking about? I am ACE certified it cost me $25 lol, should expect another bill to come or what?

I mean really whats the problem? Is it the $25 bucks, your civil liberties? What exactly, btw your not finger printed for the ASA Background check lol.

I remember 3 years ago paying $30 bucks for a family weekend pass to watch my DD play softball, that was the highest admission price I paid outside of Nationals. I counted my admission fees into public parks that summer it added up $160 bucks, all public parks maintained or built with tax payer money. There are all sorts of financial injustices in softball, I dont think a $25 background check is amoung them.

Really I'm not sure what to make out of this whole thread, it seems a little silly to me. Our rec program every coach is already ACE certified, and has been. Seemed like a logical step for us to take for an inexpensive background check.

When I coached in CYO, cost me $20 bucks and a 6 hour class to be certified to coach, then a 3 hour class every year after, if you missed 1 years 3 hr recert, you had to do the 6 hour class again. I coached in CYO for 8 years, 1 6hour class and 7 3 hour classes, took 1 year off and had to take the 6 hour class again. Big deal, I wanted to coach so I did it.

 

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the problem is: 1. how does this particular certification make someone a "better coach" just from taking ANY certification 2. communities that don't even play tournaments are dinged around 50.00 bucks per team [25.00 ace 3 people in dugout times 8.00 back ground] 3. background check isn't even finger print based and not as comprehensive/accurate, plus tell some guy volunteering to keep the book you need his credit card for a back ground check! . 4. organizations who use high school and college coaches are FAR more comprehensively certified and back ground checked. 5. the biggest reason ASA is doing this is to generate income
and protect it self from law suits.

for wwolf, there is no other ulterior motive, BOTH our organizations played in plenty of ASA tournaments last year,that's why we are not in favor of this! j

 

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hmmm.... "snowball effect"
"give 'em an inch and they'll take a yard"
"Slippery slope"

These things come to mind.

 

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"Up North"....???? Did I ever tell you how I ran the 16U and 18U States a few years back?? The year before this, the 16U State Tournament fell flat and did not happen and the 18U States had about 8 teams or less. We ran it and had 18 and 17 teams in both the first year. I bid on both the following year and only got the 18's and had 33 teams in it. The next year we didn't get either even though I had the highest bid. I think a team from "Down South" got it.
As I said, I think the system does need to be revamped.
I don't know anything about sending $40.00 per team back to ASA for an ASA tournament. I have never done it and never will. It has never been a requirement.
An ASA umpire scheduler is new to me too. I use a scheduler of my own choosing at $2.00 per game.
So, I guess maybe us "Up North" ASA guys do things different. I have not missed an Ohio ASA meeting in 5 years or so(since before Warren Jones) and what Quakerman has mentioned is mostly foreign to me. I don't believe I have seen him at a meeting either.
I still like the ACE certification. Just because a coach is a "high school" coach does not make him superior and above needing this. I know quite a few that would benefit greatly from the certification if they utilized it.
We also have a alot of high school coaches and I would not think of waiving it for any of them.
Just my humble opinion.....
Martin

Martin, at last year's bid meeting in Columbus I didn't go as Warren said I didn't have to come if I didn't want to. So, I didn't. I think he was wanting me to not show up so when they screwed me I would be there to say something..LOL :lmao: Last year was the first year I bidded on anything ASA as I was trying to help get ASA in SW Ohio for these SW Ohio teams... since no one else was trying.

This past year ( 2010 ) the 18u bid for this 2010 18u event was won by the Convention and Visitors Bureau of Butler County ( Hamilton). Trouble was.. the guy who put in the bid took on a new job with Columbus Sports Commission. So, he left it high and dry. So, the District guy from down here, Rob Robinson had the tournament thrown on him.

As we all know, the date for state tournament weekend is a certain weekend. It had to be moved to another weekend which threw things in a mess actually as it was moved to Compuware weekend and there is a thread in the ASA section of the OFC where teams was complaining. To top it off, the Cincy Metro opened up their 16u and 18u and put it on the same weekend. So it was a mess. I have no idea how many teams got in the thing..LOL Absolute mess.

As for umpire requirements.. I guess it is good to be a District Comissioner in ASA as down here .. and this was my biggest probelm with ASA, I was being required to use a local association with no talent if I was going to have the event. The Doomers got a taste of that when ASA Metro Cincinnati was sent in to do their event. Now, that was a mess and a great reason for them to go to a non-sanctioned event this year.

This and the fact my guys ( umpires) were not going to join the local ASA association so they could do 1 tournament in this area. The other tournaments in this district was being handled by other associations... because there was no association in this district.. especially when the District Commissioner was being bypassed for three years and NEVER even told that fastpitch tournament was going on in his own district:lmao:. Warren was bypassing him.

But, I keep my letters and have three from Warren Jones REQUIRING me to use this new association of ASA umpires for the Hall of Fame event. I had NO choice even though I have wonderful ASA umpires on my staff from all over three states. So, I guess you being a District guy has it's advantages

Money grab is all I can say.

That ASA bidding process is the biggest crock I ever witnessed in all my life. Actually, it could be close to violating anti-trust laws in the State of Ohio. I did file a complaint with the Ohio Attorney General's Office and the review is still going on at last glance.

I was at that joke of a meeting for umpires last year in Massillon that umpires are required to attend if they want to do state tournaments. Warren's comment at the end of the meeting.. was meant for my ears...LOL .. the part about non sanctioned tournaments and how if you run ASA events and then a non sanctioned tournament **** that was coming out of his mouth. :lmao:

Warren might tell you he doesn't read the OFC.. but he absolutely does.. as well as Hugh Cantrell of NSA National Office. I guarentee you that.

Maybe he will read this thread.

 

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QM, remind me to stay away from your events... just sounds like you like to stir up more trouble for this thing that we call a "game". I remind our coaches often, "This is just a game played by little girls".

 

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QM, remind me to stay away from your events... just sounds like you like to stir up more trouble for this thing that we call a "game". I remind our coaches often, "This is just a game played by little girls".

Marketing 101...

 

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I was talking to an umpire yesterday and when their April rules meeting come into play there will be discussion concerning if the ACE certified coach gets tossed and no other coach has it, whether it is going to result in a forfeit or not. So technically, we've gone from a $25 to at least a $50 fee to ensure at least two coaches have the certification.
We are primarily playing an ASA schedule so we have no choice but to incur the cost

 

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QM, remind me to stay away from your events... just sounds like you like to stir up more trouble for this thing that we call a "game". I remind our coaches often, "This is just a game played by little girls".

Do what you wish Martin. Funny that you say this is just a game played by little girls.

Is that what ASA is doing with ALL their requirements such as ACE and having to be insured through them to play in their events?

My events ARE indeed for the girls...no qualifiers... no BS money grabbing.. just come play ball and have fun and win something else beside dust collectors (trophies).

 

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Marketing 101...

It isn't marketing, Lester...LOL..

I just seem to get under these ASA people's hair when I talk truth to the OFC people and Martin wants to throw his own "spin" on it all to save face with ASA.

Yea, it would be great to be able as a TD to pick and choose your umpires for an event. Obviously, if you aren't a District Commissioner.. you don't get that choice.. and being forced to use the local ASA scheduler... no matter how bad that scheduler's umpires are.

Being an umpire, I have come across some very good umpires that like to work for me.. because they like the idea of working with other good umpires as there is a lot less chance of a coach coming to "their" field complaining about terrible umpires on the other field they just played on.

Umpires make or break an event and there are many TD's out here that have concern for what is being sent to them.. which I don't really blame them at all. I've always had that concern myself as a TD.

Just Martin made it easier when he said he picked his own umpires and I must have upset him when I said the other TD's of this state would LOVE to have that same opportunity.

 

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Every ASA tournament in NW Ohio has a choice of who they want to use for an umpire scheduler. What about in other parts of the State???
I have talked to a number of parents over this past weekend and everyone said that they would gladly pay a few dollars extra to have a background check and a certification in place for their coaches. Maybe this is just an attitude in NW Ohio..... Maybe the other parts of the State can ask their parents and see what the attitude is there.
I do believe in my "unbias" opinion that this is in the best interest of the girls. Some people just don't like "change"...... and that is my "2 cents" worth.

 

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I am not affiliated with ASA or any of the other organizations in any way and perhaps this is a money make for them, but unfortunately, in this day and age, I understand why ASA does this to protect themselves and yes the girls. As far as doing it through them, how do you effectively and efficiently do something like this without doing it all through a central place? Tim, I've never met you but you seem like a good guy in it for the right reasons ... but I'd also ask you not to trash some of the other good guys out there because you're going to lose credibility, with at least me.

 

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Do what you wish Martin. Funny that you say this is just a game played by little girls.

Is that what ASA is doing with ALL their requirements such as ACE and having to be insured through them to play in their events?

My events ARE indeed for the girls...no qualifiers... no BS money grabbing.. just come play ball and have fun and win something else beside dust collectors (trophies).

Hmmmmmm that kind of sounds like you do have an agenda lol.

 

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Can't there be more than 1 good TD? Can't there be more than 1 affiliation that is in it for the girls? I like different affiliations for different reasons and I've seen many TD's who make their tournaments work, rain or shine. Why can't someone else be good too?

 

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I am not against the background check, I know different leauges use different methods.
NYSCA, highschool Ohsaa,...... If you already are going thru these programs and have gone thru an FBI check, nothing worse than being fingerprinted for school when u have done nothing wrong, but we do it every other year. why go thru another,what is the real reason ASA wants u to do it again.

For those that are not certified go get em and verify, why is there not just 1 general accepted practice.

 

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Again, I have absolutely nothing to do with ASA, but if Coach A did it for high school, Coach B did it for CYO, Coach C does it with ASA, and Coach D doesn't do it at all, who is going to keep track of all of that and make sure it was all legitimate? I am sure the cost to administer all of that would be a lot more than the way they are doing it now.

 

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Again, I have absolutely nothing to do with ASA, but if Coach A did it for high school, Coach B did it for CYO, Coach C does it with ASA, and Coach D doesn't do it at all, who is going to keep track of all of that and make sure it was all legitimate? I am sure the cost to administer all of that would be a lot more than the way they are doing it now.

I agree. The background checks are also a lot easier now than they used to be when we had to go wait someplace during business hours to have our fingers scanned.

I gotta believe the ACE certification is geared more for rec teams, which are the bulk of ASA JO ball. To ASA's credit, they've also made ACE more convenient than it used to be.

It all seems onerous the first time, but it's a minor nuisance after that to maintain it. It's a small price to pay if you're serious about competing at a high level.

 

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Give me a card, and I can show it at the t-ment before we play.....

 

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As a college coach and a NFCA member who has several classes with the NFCC my ? is what makes ASA think they can certify me any better than what I am getting now. Why can't they accept they paper work and cards that we already have. As far as high school coaches (the ones I have talked to) they have to pay for all of their classes themselfs, again why can't ASA accept their cards.
For the ones saying its only $25 thats the same mentallity that the goverment uses and we all see how that works.
I believe some of the orgs try to look out for and save their parents a little

 

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I think it is extremely important for all coaches and any parent helping the team to have a background check! Every sanctioning body should enforce it and parents should demand it. Things happen and everyone believes it will not happen to their child. Come on people, safety first, our children are worth it!

 

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As a college coach and a NFCA member who has several classes with the NFCC my ? is what makes ASA think they can certify me any better than what I am getting now. Why can't they accept they paper work and cards that we already have. As far as high school coaches (the ones I have talked to) they have to pay for all of their classes themselfs, again why can't ASA accept their cards.
For the ones saying its only $25 thats the same mentallity that the goverment uses and we all see how that works.
I believe some of the orgs try to look out for and save their parents a little

ASA can be very arrogant, but I doubt their motivation is thinking they can certify coaches better than everybody else. I'm not with ASA, but I can think of 2 main reasons why they run a one-size-fits-all program:

1. As has been mentioned here several times, it is much easier and simpler for ASA to administer the certifications this way. ASA does it with just one certifying firm and they have an automated interface to update their records. It would take a lot more effort for ASA to determine which other certifications would be acceptable and then have to manually update their records for the people that use those certifications instead of ACE.

2. They can control the content of ACE certification to make sure it meets their needs each year. ASA can use ACE to make sure teams are aware of the latest changes to ASA Code and playing rules.

By the way, knowledge of NCAA and/or NFHS rules does not mean the coaches are familiar with ASA rules. The differences are documented here http://downloads.asasoftball.com/umpires/pdf/NCAA_NHFHS_and_ASA_Rule_Differences.pdf