Changing of the guard? The "elite" ?

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After checking out the fall tournament threads, it seems that the "elite" organizations now have competition that can threaten that status. ?You now cannot ignore teams such as the Miami Valley Express and the Buckeye Heat as they seem to have made a statement this weekend that they are for real. ?Both of these organizations had victories over the perennial elite orgaizations this past weekend. ?This should make the 2006 season very interesting. ?JMHObservation.

 

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SBwatcher - where you been man? MVE has been a MAJOR player statewide for many, many years and ever since Joe added his second team years ago they have had the respect of all the other organizations. This is nothing new!!!

 

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OhioRays, I agree with you. No real surprise there.

Also, one thing to consider in the fall is you never know if any of these teams have thier full stock of players. Many play HS sports and cannot make the fall tournaments. Summer always sorts things out.

 

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I wouldn't call it a changing of the guard.... MVE 13u was a team to reckon with as 12u last year...and it seems that they will be just as tough at 14u this coming summer... but remember a lot of fall tournaments are played to give the new members and returning members a feel for each other. From the results of the tourney, it looks like several 13u teams including the Stingrays and Doom will win their share of games.

 

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LOL, I certainly did not mean to slight the above mentioned teams. I have been around softball for a while and I do know that the MVExpress and the Buckeye Heat have been "heavy players" in the softball world, as are the SGS, Bustos, etc.

In the not so distant past, when the "elite" teams were discussed-usually the only ones mentioned were Laser, Wolfpack, Stingrays, Ice, Coke, etc. I am saying that they now have company with the MXExpress, Buckeye Heat and maybe the SGS teams. It use to be everytime you saw the above "elite" names in a tournament, they were also still in it on Sunday. On a good day, a good organization might have beaten the "elite" once in a while - in the past. I believe they have to set a few more plates at the table when they discuss "elite". They have company now and I don't believe they are going away. Kudos to the organizations that are making the grade, big time.

 

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Competiton is what we want our girls to face, and it looks like there is a long line of teams just waiting to compete! The fact that there are more teams competing at a higher level than before assures everyone that it will be a great summer!

 

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I agree with dedicated dad's last post and thank SBWatcher for his observations. We all need to figure out something, however. I don't know about the other age levels, but at 16-U, we seem to be well behind Indiana. When I think of the good Indiana teams at 16-U, the list is long.

 

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Can I take this thread a different route? Is it good for softball in Ohio to have this many evenly matched teams? How are we as a state going to compete on a national level with so many watered down teams? Wouldn't it be better if we had 2 or 3 truly dominant teams to make a run against the California and Texas teams?

 

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Good point Coachdad.
I would also take that one step further, before we worry about the left coast and the southern states at nationals we need to concentrate on the teams/organizations from states to the right and left of us. I can't even remember the last time we as a state could consitently compete with the Indiana teams as well as some of the better Pennsylvania teams. I am encouraged by the way our organizations are stepping it up a notch against each other, but with all the shuffling that has gone on in the off season I really wonder if we have enough talent concentrated in some of these teams to keep up with the shockwaves, dreams, compuware, power, and spirit. Anybody have any thoughts on this?

 

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We are on the same page. Look at those states you mention. How many really good teams are there? Shockwaves, Dreams in Indiana, Spirit in PA, Compuware in MI.

 

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I think we have teams good enough to compete with those teams, it's just they have more really good teams than we do. If we have 5-6 very good teams at an age level, they have 15. I would argue that the parity might be more on their side of things, at least at the top level of ball.

 

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Joe

I agree we have teams that can compete with these teams, a game here and there, but not week in and week out. I know from experience that once a particular pa team figured out our organizations teams they never let up. They outplayed us everytime we saw them. It gets tough sending these girls out for the next round when in the back of their minds is the beating they took the last two or three times they played.

I am not sure how large the recruiting area is for the Indiana teams , but I know from conversations with the Pittsburgh teams that they primarily recruit from the city and its close municipalities, not the whole state like some of our organizations. I would think that if you could get the true best 11 or 12 from across the state we could stay with them all the time. Unfourtunetly we seem to enjoy the "elite light" version of softball.

Just my 2 cents.

 

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Pathetic: I guess it depends upon the age division, but I think at 16-U this past summer our teams competed well against those teams. The only team I can think of that was maybe a notch above everyone else was the Indy Edge, and that was only because they had one great pitcher. Grand Slam did well in Boulder and at ASA Nationals. Our teams did very well at Compuware compared to PA and IND.

I'm not sure about the other age groups. My thought though is that we need to focus on making more players able to play at that top level instead of worrying about getting 1 or 2 teams together. That might be nice for those teams, but it doesn't do too much for the overall state of things. If we are going to get 1 or 2 teams together, who is going to decide who gets all of the top players?

 

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Joe

I do agree with you that we need to get more players to the top level, that in turn would get more teams and organizations to that level. I guess I am one of those instant gratification type people. I want it all now and don't really want to wait. I imagine we will find out soon enough if the divide and conquer method will work for Ohio.

On a brighter note one of our lowly football teams have been doing a number on a certain unnamed prominent university from the city of Pittsburgh. Just maybe this will carry over to the softball community come summer travel ball season. ;D ;D ;D

 

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The idea of putting together a few excellent teams is a laudable goal, but I doubt it will ever happen. Just look at all the negative postings that occurred last year with the C2N Ice and this year with the Stingrays/Ice. How many teams would we pull apart by getting the top players together. I would be surprised if any other states had worked this way either. Most players go where they are comfortable, or feel they get most of their needs met, can accomplish goals, and still have a life outside of softball. It is the coaches/organizations job to attract them.

I too think there are some excellent Indy teams. I am not sure of the numbers, but in doing a quick glance through ASA Nationals, Colorado etc. I don't see more Indy teams then Ohio teams. Obviously not a definitive study, just an observation. I know there is also more AFA participation in Indiana then Ohio, and maybe that is part of the explanation.

 

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Speaking from the PA side......
There are a few tough teams in the Power and Spirit organization, BUT they too also have many non-competitive teams within their organization. Sometimes when you increase your size to include multiple teams in age groups there is just not enough good coaching to advance the girls. You also find many of the "extra" teams have players that play just to say (or parents) they play "travel ball" but really are just rec league level of play, they are not totally committed to what it takes to be a true travel ball player.

These organizations "stronger teams" will donimate at the local level on a consistant basis, but not always at the more elite tournaments. One organization is concerned about "being the biggest" the other is on "winning percentage", many times the importance of "quality and competitive play" are bypassed.

I agree that too many teams or organizations makes it harder, but I am sure they have those problems in every state. Maybe there are just more experienced, educated, dedicated coaches in other states to handle the growth in the sport.

Especially this year, with the rising costs of traveling, in PA we found that many folks were making decisions on where to play more for distances and convienence than on caliber of team or level of coaching. (where friends were playing for car pooling, etc)

There are many excellent teams in MD, IN, VA and the Eastern part of PA as well that we don't get to play much unless you take a trip and travel to their turf. Chambersburg is a great place to go challenge those teams.

 

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Re: Changing of the guard? The

and still have a life outside of softball.

Is there such a thing?
;D ;D ;D

Dogsdad putting together a dream team is what some organizations attemp to do but for some reason things don't always work out. My point was the top organizations from other places draw from one city, a relatively small talent pool, as opposed to a whole state. A few things stand out with this. Either the players are more talented than ours, the coaching is better, or the feeder programs from younger age groups are better.

Far better minds than mine would have the answers to this.

I think it is great that some of the lessor known and smaller organizations are fielding teams that can and do compete strongly against the "elite" Ohio organizations, the only result from this is both organizations should and will get better.
My desire is to get to were the teams from the east and west are. When you can have two Ohio teams playing late on Sunday as opposed to two imports you will have accomplished something. A good example of this was at Uncle Stan's in the 14's last summer with the Dupage Diamond Dogs and Spirit playing the final while the Ohio teams folded there tents. Not exactly enjoyable seeing all those out-of-state people still playing while all the Ohio teams were on their way home.

 

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The organization a daughter of mine plays for has a lot of teams. The teams are at different levels intentionally. A few of the teams are "elite" teams. There are teams available at different levels and that meet the needs and scheduling demands of all types of players. When trying out, the girls could indicate as to which team was their first and second preference. That way, if they were not selected for the "elite" team, they could still have a chance to play on a team.

 

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Pathetic,

You have a good point, unfortunately, about some of the teams in states around us. I know that a certain 13U team spanked our 13U team pretty good last year (twice :-[) and I felt like "just wait til they play our 14's!" When they finally did, the result was about the same (twice :-[).

I think that the Lasers have teams that can consistently compete at a similar level, but why do we have to go across the entire state (even from outside the state in some cases) instead of having our local teams being developed. I do see progress and we are moving in the right direction, maybe that team in the ugly black and gold uniforms just got lucky (boy, I really hate those colors ).

Just wait til next year!!!

 

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How much of the strength of the better teams do you think comes from having the same players and coaches over several years? Seems like we play a team from Pitts year after year and they always have the same players. Over here it's always interesting at the end of the year to see how many kids are jumping teams or how the coaches are going to split off and combine with other teams. It may be fine at some of the older levels but at the younger ages I'd like to see more commitment to the team from both players and coaches.

The worst part about losing to that PA team every time is that they are such nice kids. If they were brats at least you could hate them. They are good players, but are a great team ... makes me wonder if they are onto something.