Coaches, ever run into parent(s) who you had problems with?

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True story. Funny story too.

I had this girl on my team. Nice enough kid. I don't think I heard her mom talk one time. I don't know that I ever saw her dad not talk. He wasn't just talking. He was complaining to anyone who would pretend to listen. About everything. All the time. The guy complained when it was hot, he complained when it was cold, he complained that it was too dry and dust was blowing around, he complained that it rained and we couldn't play. He complained that we didn't have a summer schedule a week after we put the team together at the end of August. He sat under his umbrealla pounding ice water in shorts and a tank top and complained that I had the girls playing in shorts. Most of all he complained that I didn't have his daughter batting 4th and pitching a little bit better than half of the time. She was batting in the low to mid 100s and really struggling, he said it was my fault. I moved her down in the order and that put tremendous pressure on her, you see. On the occasions that I let her pitch she was under ssssssooooo much pressure because she knew that if she didn't deliver I would pull her. So her poor performance in the circle was all my fault too. It was all my fault. When we lost it was me. When we won we beat a team that shouldn't have even been on the same field we were on and I was a trophy hunter, etc. Any time anything happened he found a way to make it negative. If he could blame me for it that made it even better.

Anyway. The long and the short of it was this. He wanted the team to win because everyone likes taking pictures of junior and the rest of the girls holding their trinkets on Sunday evening. He also wanted his kid to bat 4th and go 1 for 20 at the plate and walk in 18 runs per game. I'm not sure how we were supposed to pull that off but that is exactly what he wanted.

So I'm no longer a coach. My kid is playing on another team far away from him. I hoped I would never have to look at him again. The other day we were watching a game wrap up before our kids could play and he comes up to me and starts talking. He doesn't say "How do you do, sir?" or "Hey Mike. How's it going?" There was no greeting. He simply started throwing a fit because they pulled his kid from the circle when they were down 1-0 and now they were going to lose and she was striking them out left and right and throwing smoke and they crushed her confidence and blah blah blah blah blah. I just kind of looked at him. When he stopped ranting I walked away shaking my head and didn't say a word.

Ever had this happen? There were a lot of things that I wanted to say. I opted to say nothing for fear that I wouldn't be able to keep it quiet in front of the kids and/or stop once I got started.

 

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Yep, and one too many times ...

And it happens more than it used to ...

And Jenna is right ... they usually do ruin it for their kids ...

And one other note ... it's not just limited to dads ...

 

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we all know dads like that. sad part is these dads ruin it for their kids

Very true.....

 

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Firstly, thanks for putting forth the effort to coach. It's an endeavor that's never fully appreciated.

Secondly, don't take the disgruntled parent personally. I feel safe in guessing that there's one on about 2/3rds of the teams out there. (They're the ones who put their daughter on a new team every year.)

Enjoy the game from the stands; it's less stressful.

 

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Enjoy the game from the stands; it's less stressful.

Especially when I can complain to someone...;&

 

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I would simply pull the stats and show them to this guy and say, "coaching is really hard sometimes and even though I believe in your DD, I simply can't put a .125 batter at cleanup. Also since we don't score 9 runs an inning, we just can't support your DD's WHIP of 5. I really wish I could push the EASY button here, but..."

 

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Good point.

The "numbers don't lie". If you can show "quantifiable evidence" to justify your decisions, how can they argue? (Because it's their daughter, that's how...) As a manager, you have to set personal feelings aside and go with the best lineup possible.

 

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I would simply pull the stats and show them to this guy and say, "coaching is really hard sometimes and even though I believe in your DD, I simply can't put a .125 batter at cleanup. Also since we don't score 9 runs an inning, we just can't support your DD's WHIP of 5. I really wish I could push the EASY button here, but..."

These people can't see black and white. lol. If you showed them the book, they would tell you you're scoring it wrong. I had a parent for 3 years complain the book was never right about her daughter till she finally found out from somebody else that every time they make contact with the ball is NOT scored a hit! I informed her I had been trying to explain that to her for 3 years and she still blamed my coaching for being the problem yet they came back every year to try out. In this case, the kid was a hoot to coach and a good ball player, just not Arizona bound like Mom thought she should be. lol

 

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A parent like this-showing them the numbers wouldn't change anything. They would bust out, "the score keeper doesn't know how to do it." I can hear it now.

by the way-the same thing happened to me on a team that I was coaching. Sounds oddly similar. I had to retire anyway due to my health, but this parent made my stress level way too high that retirement was a no brainer.

I saw this family last weekend at a tourney and they are back on the team that "they hated" so much. The poor girl involved is getting a bad rep because of her father. I see it all the time and I try my hardest to see the DD separately from the parents, but the parents produce ugliness for the rest of the parents and it gets uncomfortable.

The best thing you did was to walk away without saying a word. good luck to your DD's season.

 

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Had a girl on my team 16-U several years ago ... hadn't played competitive travel ball before, but was a good kid, worked hard, had lots of speed, and she was working on pitching and we needed a 3rd pitcher and we told her she would be that ... not get a lot of innings, but some for sure and possibly more based on her improvement. Dad didn't say a word, and mom did all of the talking. She got in every single game, and was averaging a little over 2 plate appearances per game, while tops on the team was averaging a little more than 3. Worked with her a lot on her bunting and a little on slapping to take advantage of her speed. When swinging away, she seldom got it out of the infield and was hitting right around .100, but when bunting or slapping, she was around .300 and was near the team lead in both sacrifices and steals ... but overall batting average was still lowest on team. She didn't get a lot of opportunities pitching wise, but when she did, her WHIP was 2.5 and the batting average against was .400. I heard several reports from other parents and coaches about her mom complaining constantly to the other parents, and she came to me half way through the season saying that her daughter was quitting because she wasn't getting enough playing time. I showed her the stats, including the fact that she had been in every game, but also that she was at the bottom of the stats in both BA and ERA. But of course I was told that at least the BA was my fault ... I had her bunt or slap too much. Oh well ...

 

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Some of you mentioned the stat book. I never showed them to the parents or to the girls. I told them exactly how I would set the line up and let it go at that. I suppose I could have showed it to the parents, but I wouldn't show it to the girls. Nice way to start infighting, IMO.

I actually let the guy I'm talking about keep the book one time. See, if his daughter wasn't pitching he wanted her playing 1st. I remembered the other girl who I played at 1st hitting the snot out of the ball that day. When I went to update my spread sheet I noticed that every hit she had was scored as an error. Weird, right? He never kept the book again.

 

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I knew a parent like that back in the day (if she hit the ball its a hit). I also see more and more parents keeping thier OWN book or using GameChanger/Iscore. As far as STATS go, its best if the team has a non-parent coach to keep the book. I've heard of too many situations where errors are scored as hits, hits are scored as errors etc. to make their kids look "good". IMHO, NEVER let a pitcher dad/mom keep the book

Some coaches make the line-up based on who is hot, who is consistent etc- they don't need to see stats to know that

Stats are a funny thing. You could have a hitter showing great stats, but if the only time she comes to the plate is against weaker/ slower pitchers then they are misleading, however a strong hitter is hitting against not only them but the tougher pitching. JMHO.

I have kept team stats for 3 years now using the iPad (iScore). I sit next to the coach scoring the paper book and we talk all game to make sure we are scoring the same way. Like Hillary Clinton said, It takes a Villiage. Lol

 

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...Some coaches make the line-up based on who is hot, who is consistent etc- they don't need to see stats to know that

If they don't need stats to know that, then they are better than I am. It has been my experience that our minds aren't nearly as good at keeping up with that stuff as we think, especially when it comes to our own daughters. For example, I was pretty disappointed with my own DD's performance recently and would have put her in the "middle of the pack" as far as "who is hot" only to find after reviewing the stats that she had the hightes AVG was 2nd in the wOBA rankings for the recent games.

I strongly suggest that all coaches use the stats and not their perceptions as the basis of what is really going on as I've proven to myself numerous times that perceptions and reality don't always match up.

As far as sharing with parents/players - only as a last resort with the parents and never with the players.

 

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Have to agree with TR on this one ... while stats can be misleading at times, I have also found them to be revealing over the years as well. Coaches are like anyone else ... they have built in biases towards certain players ... not necessarily a daughter, but sometimes someone whose parent they like, someone who is always working hard at practices, someone who has a nice swing, etc. I can say that almost every year I've coached, there's been someone when I looked at the stats about halfway through the season who was doing better than I thought, and someone else who was doing worse. When the book is kept well and there's enough opportunities (say 50 at bats or so), they start to mean more and more, and every coach should take them into consideration when setting lineups in my opinion. And while I didn't routinely share them with parents, I would do when asked or if I felt I needed to in order to help explain why I was doing certain things (like playing them less).

 

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I strongly suggest that all coaches use the stats and not their perceptions as the basis of what is really going on as I've proven to myself numerous times that perceptions and reality don't always match up.

I always used stats, but I would have to deviate from my methods from time to time. I liked to have someone with decent wheels in the 9 spot for example. I don't want the top of my order getting held up if the kid who would normally go there has wheels like a tractor. It doesn't matter what you do if everyone is hitting, which is a good thing, I just liked to try to lessen the odds.

 

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As far as sharing with parents/players - only as a last resort with the parents and never with the players.

I want the players to see their stats. But only their own stats. It can be a confidence-builder when they see where they're doing well, and shows areas where they can improve.

 

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"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain

If you haven't had at least one parent like this, you're not a coach! LOL

 

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I always used stats, but I would have to deviate from my methods from time to time. I liked to have someone with decent wheels in the 9 spot for example. I don't want the top of my order getting held up if the kid who would normally go there has wheels like a tractor. It doesn't matter what you do if everyone is hitting, which is a good thing, I just liked to try to lessen the odds.

Without getting on my soapbox, I will repeat that I feel the stats should be the BASIS of creating a lineup but there are many reasons to make adjustments; speed in the bottom of the order is definately an adjustment to consider.

 

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I want the players to see their stats. But only their own stats. It can be a confidence-builder when they see where they're doing well, and shows areas where they can improve.

I used to feel that way too until I completely ruined a whole tournament with my 10U DD. She was more worried about K% than concentrating on having an effective plate appearance. As I'm sure you can guess, this didn't turn out well. Haven't shown her stats to her since!

 

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... Coaches are like anyone else ... they have built in biases towards certain players ... not necessarily a daughter, but sometimes someone whose parent they like, someone who is always working hard at practices, someone who has a nice swing, etc...

Well said. I was trying to figure out a way to get that point accross too and didn't come up with anything even close to this good so I just stuck with "DD". Thanks!