Coaches, ever run into parent(s) who you had problems with?

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You can't please everyone. If it continues after showing stats I'd probably say something like "If she works hard outside of practice and shows improvement in these areas, then that will show up in the stats, and will get her more playing time." Then ask "how are things going with her hitting, pitching, and agility coach?". If they aren't investing in any outside training, suggest they probably should because the more serious players are all doing that and working on their own outside of practice.

 

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Have to agree with TR on this one ... while stats can be misleading at times, I have also found them to be revealing over the years as well. Coaches are like anyone else ... they have built in biases towards certain players ... not necessarily a daughter, but sometimes someone whose parent they like, someone who is always working hard at practices, someone who has a nice swing, etc. I can say that almost every year I've coached, there's been someone when I looked at the stats about halfway through the season who was doing better than I thought, and someone else who was doing worse. When the book is kept well and there's enough opportunities (say 50 at bats or so), they start to mean more and more, and every coach should take them into consideration when setting lineups in my opinion. And while I didn't routinely share them with parents, I would do when asked or if I felt I needed to in order to help explain why I was doing certain things (like playing them less).

I agree about using statistics to help create a lineup, coach...but only in part. Statistics are a quantitative measure of past events and aren't necessarily a predictor of future events. That is why it is crucial to consider the context of the statistics. After all, which coach hasn't had a kid that absolutely kills one type of pitching but fails miserably against another type of pitcher? Last year, I had a player who probably hit .475 against slow pitching, but against medium to fast pitching hit probably .065. Her overall batting average was close to .335 but that is because after awhile I stopped playing her against fast pitching. If I just blindly went by her overall hitting statistics, I would have batted her every game regardless of who the pitcher was...and the team may have suffered.

Also, statistics do not take into account the "improvement factor." In travel ball and high school ball, girls can improve significantly over the course of weeks and months. Flaws in swings can be fixed, injuries can heal up, confidence can soar, understanding of the count and other factors can make a particular batter far more likely to succeed than they did even two weeks prior. Again, we are trying to predict future success here when making out a lineup card.

Finally, statistics don't always give the full picture of how a batter got out or got on. Was Sally's 0-3 game or 2-15 derived from a bunch of hard hit line drives that fielders made great plays on? Was Jane's 8-13 derived from squibblers and poorly hit flares behind the first baseman? Predicting for future success, would you not want to give Sally a little more credit and consideration over Jane when making up a lineup?

Of course, we all know that generally speaking the more at bats that are taken into consideration the clearer picture you have from a statistical perspective. However, what is an "adequate" number of at bats to draw from? We have players who probably have about 120 at bats since we started playing together as a team in September. However, half of those at bats are from 4 months ago or longer (and indoors). That further reduces the sample size and the effectiveness in being a predictor of success.

In short, I do see obvious value in using stats to help make up lineups, but I also put a lot of stock in qualitative things that don't show up in stats: the player's swing, athleticism, improvement, confidence level, pitcher we are facing, mental toughness, understanding of counts, etc. These things to me are very important in predicting success as well.

Ok...back to work now.

 

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Hmm, Have you ever noticed that those that complain the most were NOT very good atheletes in their younger years? Being supportive of your children is very important. Having them watch, and hear, you complain is not helping in that area.

 

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Past performance is widely accepted as the best predictor of future performance. The YTD statistics represent the measure of that past performance. It should be viewed objectively when creating an effective offensive lineup and adjusted where applicable. Some of what Tony is suggesting above represent legitimate reasons (in my feable mind) to adjust the lineup "away" from what the stats are suggesting, however, I say "be careful" or you will leave some potential base runners (and therefore potential runs) on the bench.

Improvement? - absolutely. I look at performance in our last 10 games and compare that to YTD and might make adjustments based on the difference(s).

Player's swing, confidence level, mental toughness, understanding of counts? - Not for me unless the player has "improved" in one or more of these areas and the results are making themselves known in the recent stats.

wOBA is one of my favorite stats as it is the best measure I have found to deal with giving players more credit than others depending upon "how" they got on base. However, it doesn't do anything to help with Sally going 2-15 with 15 line drives vs. Joan going 2-15 with 13 Ks. (I use K% and Out% for that.)

 

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I had a parent a couple years ago that joined our team in the fall as a pitcher. Our team did a few fundraisers to help with team expenses, and at the time only charged $250 as a commitment fee. After we had a fundraiser selling subs, the dad told me he couldn't sell subs and asked if there was another way to help raise money. I informed him to just make sure he sold tickets to our fish fry....and I just reminded him to do his part. The fish fry rolled around and he asked if there was another way to raise money and I told him, yes, you could have sold subs. I wasn't overly pleased with the family's effort in helping raise funds. The young lady coaching our team contacted me about the daughter's lack of effort in pitching lessons, etc. Since neither of us were happy, we told the dad they had a one time, one day offer....we would give back the $250 fee because we felt their commitment to us was too hard for them to keep. I gave them 24 hours to make a decision. If they decided to stay with us I didn't want to hear any complaints about playing time, etc. They took the $250 and went on to find a team with the Hawks. We thought that was the end of the story.

Later that summer, we ended up playing the Hawks team she was on and they pitched her against us. Our girls were up to the challenged and chased her off after one inning and his daughter left the game in tears. The next day a letter was sent to the OHSAA director about improper actions from me and my coaches in requiring kids to practice through the winter, even though we had more than 4 girls on our team. Our new coach, young and energetic sent out an email to all the parents in the fall once the team was picked and said we will be practicing all fall and winter. I told the young coach that it is a violation of OHSAA rules and we can't practice. I did not put it into writing with her. I told her she could give lessons and charge for the lessons. I did that with my daughters and some of the other parents took advantage of her services too.

I got called into our HS AD's office about the letter he sent. While it was embarrassing to be called in, she knew right away it wasn't true as he accused our AD as being in on it, allowing us to practice illegally. After sitting with her she ask if I knew who would have sent this email to the state. I said only one person I know of would have done this. I saw his email address on the letter and knew right away who it was. I explained to our AD that the very next day after we chased his daughter out of the game is when he sent the letter. She realized is was a vindictive letter and told the state director the same thing.

Getting mad at me was one thing...trying to take it out on a bunch of kids is another. I tried to do the right thing and let him and his daughter off the hook to find a better team and even gave them the only money they had invested in our team back to them. Apparently, that wasn't enough in his eyes. I even instructed our parents to ignore him and to not get confrontational with him, because a few of our dads were irrate....and not the type of people you want to make mad.

I have seen him at games, and even saw him at the Dayton Metro a few weeks ago as his daughter now plays for the Edge. I could say something to him and let him know my displeasure in trying to make many of the Northmont players ineligible by his lies, but I took the high road and ignored him. I will say being up 8 to 0 after one inning against his daughter sure seemed a lot sweeter knowing he was the one that sent out the email. I have never let him know I know it is him that sent the letter. Maybe he'll know now.

 

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Until you got to the part about tank top I thought you were talking about my hubby ha ha. Then again he's an equal opportunity complainer - he the anti-mikey "he hates everything!"

Disclaimer: I'm really just making a joke... He's not really that bad!!!

 

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newsoftballmom ... as I mentioned earlier, I think stats should be reviewed and taken into consideration in determining the lineup, but I also agree with Coach Tony that you have to look at a lot of other factors. One thing you have to consider is the quality of the at bats regardless of the outcome, and another is the psyche of the girls ... and this is where it gets tricky. For example, if someone is in slump, it sometimes can make sense to move them down in the order, but I have also seen this backfire on myself and others, probably more so with girls than boys. Many girls seem to take this very personally and as a lack of confidence from their coach, which can make things even worse and really hurt the team. Sometimes, if a coach knows the player is working hard and has the ability but just isn't catching any breaks, a coach might be better off encouraging them and letting them work through it. There are no right or wrong answers ... the point is that good accurate stats should be kept and reviewed often, but they can't be the only factor in making decisions. The thing that I always come back to is that I believe that most coaches really do want to win and do what's best for the team and the girls in the long run ... they don't always do that obviously, but I am pretty sure I know your team's coaching staff, and my recommendation would be to trust them. Just my opinion ...

 

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LMAO - YEP had a step-dad just like what you just described. The one I wont forget is when he said there are too many rocks on the field. He wanted his step-DD to play 3rd and pitch in the same game. Mom is just the opposite than the mom you described. Unfortunately there's one on every team it sounds like.

Regards

 

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Regarding girls knowing their stats, it's much the same as girl attitudes affecting play. DD knows her batting average is down this summer. Her response: "I haven't had enough at bats yet". She knows that her stat for 18 at bats doesn't mean much, especially when compared to teammates with 30-40 at bats; has had lots of contact, only 2 strike outs, 1 sac bunt, a couple walks and an rbi single. She continues to practice for the 4 tournaments remaining.

 

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funny thread . makes me wonder if you guys follow my team around . it all sounds so familiar !

 

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One of the things I used to do is take time about mid-season to have a 1 on staff meeting with each girl and show them their own stats, share overall team average in each category, compliment them for the areas they have excelled, and point out the areas of weakness they will need to focus on for the remainder of the season. We always finish with our pleasure to coach them and to the ones that may have attitude issues we discussed how making a change could help them both on and off the field. We always handled it with tact and afterwards it appeared to be a motivator and helped with the team effort.

Now, there are always exceptions to the normal and here's what happened with a 14u team from my home town loaded with locals that have known me their entire life. A few of the girls after their interview went to the others and told them we were ripping them all a new cavity about their play. Before we even knew what was happening a small group of parents came to us to rip us and ask if we really thought all this was necessary enlight of our bracket games coming up the next day. They had no idea what the meetings were about and informed us the girls were sitting in the hallway of the motel rooms in tears waiting their turn to be humiliated. The girls that started the whole mess hid from everyone once they realized how out of hand their little joke had gone but I admit I felt the tone of the season was compromised because of the joke those girls started. The rest of the girls resented them for doing it while a couple of parents decided any criticism of their daughter was uncalled for and resented us for speaking with the girls.

It's the only time we ever had an issue and had the pow wow session backfire.

 

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One of the things I used to do is take time about mid-season to have a 1 on staff meeting with each girl and show them their own stats, share overall team average in each category, compliment them for the areas they have excelled, and point out the areas of weakness they will need to focus on for the remainder of the season. We always finish with our pleasure to coach them and to the ones that may have attitude issues we discussed how making a change could help them both on and off the field. We always handled it with tact and afterwards it appeared to be a motivator and helped with team effort.

like,like, like...
where were you when my kids were young..