dropped third strike

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For stat purposes, with a dropped third strike and batter gets on first is it considered a strike-out for the pitcher and an E2?

 

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it depends if my daughter is pitching, catching or hitting! :lmao:

 

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it depends if my daughter is pitching, catching or hitting! :lmao:

You can pad your stats all you want. :lmao: Wondering what the ethical answer is here.

 

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it depends if my daughter is pitching, catching or hitting! :lmao:

Like that, honesty.

 

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I think the correct call is E-2, K awarded to 1...can't remember what you list for the hitter though....

 

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The ATEC scoring guide indicates that a dropped third strike should be scored as a passed ball or wild pitch, UNLESS the ball is recovered and thrown to first in time for an out to have been made. Then an E2 (on the throw) or E3 (on the catch) could be charged.

The pitcher gets credit for a strikeout.

Passed balls and wild pitches are NOT errors - they are a separate trackable category.

 

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Its recorded as KPB (strike out, passed ball), which credits the pitcher for a strike out and the catcher for an error. Unless the catcher recovers and throws the girl out at first. Then it would be recorded KPB 2-3, however the catcher would still get credited for the error on the passed ball.

 

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The ATEC scoring guide indicates that a dropped third strike should be scored as a passed ball or wild pitch, UNLESS the ball is recovered and thrown to first in time for an out to have been made. Then an E2 (on the throw) or E3 (on the catch) could be charged.

The pitcher gets credit for a strikeout.

Passed balls and wild pitches are NOT errors - they are a separate trackable category.

Yes - this is exactly right...

 

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Its recorded as KPB (strike out, passed ball), which credits the pitcher for a strike out and the catcher for an error. Unless the catcher recovers and throws the girl out at first. Then it would be recorded KPB 2-3, however the catcher would still get credited for the error on the passed ball.

Would disagree with a few points here - generally, you don't charge an error UNLESS a runner gains a base. So if the catcher recovers a ball and throws the batter out, where is the error? It is like a shortstop bobbling a ball, but still throwing the batter out.

So what happens if there was a runner on first, who advances due to the dropped third? I still think you record it as KPB or KWP, then record the out. The runner advances on the dropped third strike, NOT an error.

 

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Would disagree with a few points here - generally, you don't charge an error UNLESS a runner gains a base. So if the catcher recovers a ball and throws the batter out, where is the error? It is like a shortstop bobbling a ball, but still throwing the batter out.

So what happens if there was a runner on first, who advances due to the dropped third? I still think you record it as KPB or KWP, then record the out. The runner advances on the dropped third strike, NOT an error.

Yeah you're right. Normal chain of events on a strikeout would be the pitcher would get an assist and the catcher would get the put out. On a dropped 3rd, the pitcher would get credit for the K, the 1st baseman would get the put out if the out was made and the catcher would get the assist. My bad;&

 

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I think from the original post that the runner did make it to first due to a dropped 3rd strike. I am not sure that a dropped strike should be considered the same as a wild pitch?!

 

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At the risk of offending anyone who has replied here, I think there needs to be some clarifications. If the pitchers throws strike three that bounces off the plate and gets past the catcher, it is not a past ball, it is a wild pitch so the correct scoring if the batter is safe at first would be k-wp. If it is a ball that the catcher could have caught with normal effort, then by all means charge a passed ball and score k-pb. If there is a passed ball, it is not an error, it is a passed ball - seperate category. If any runner on base already moves up a base, it is not because of the K, they are moving up because of either a wild pitch or a passed ball. If nobody on and batter is thrown out at first, it would go k2-3 for the putout - no passed ball or wild pitch should be assesed unless there are other runners on base that move up. With bases empty and a 2-3 putout, just score k2-3. Finally, pitchers do not get credit for an assist on a strikeout.

 

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kudos to those that keep stats, my mind is mush now.

 

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At the risk of offending anyone who has replied here, I think there needs to be some clarifications. If the pitchers throws strike three that bounces off the plate and gets past the catcher, it is not a past ball, it is a wild pitch so the correct scoring if the batter is safe at first would be k-wp. If it is a ball that the catcher could have caught with normal effort, then by all means charge a passed ball and score k-pb. If there is a passed ball, it is not an error, it is a passed ball - seperate category. If any runner on base already moves up a base, it is not because of the K, they are moving up because of either a wild pitch or a passed ball. If nobody on and batter is thrown out at first, it would go k2-3 for the putout - no passed ball or wild pitch should be assesed unless there are other runners on base that move up. With bases empty and a 2-3 putout, just score k2-3. Finally, pitchers do not get credit for an assist on a strikeout.

Completely correct. some people think that the assist goes to the pitcher and the put out to the catcher, but in fact the putout goes to the pitcher. Sometimes talking to parents can really make you second guess yourself as a stat keeper. As long as you read the ATEC you are good to go. I keep it with me and when parents give me a hard time, I ask them to read it and get back to me with any questions. The parents on my DD's team this year are pretty good except for a couple of Dads who don't think that women who played the sport know the right stats. It can get confusing, but that's why I have you guys to keep me straight:yahoo:

 

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Completely correct. some people think that the assist goes to the pitcher and the put out to the catcher, but in fact the putout goes to the pitcher. Sometimes talking to parents can really make you second guess yourself as a stat keeper. As long as you read the ATEC you are good to go. I keep it with me and when parents give me a hard time, I ask them to read it and get back to me with any questions. The parents on my DD's team this year are pretty good except for a couple of Dads who don't think that women who played the sport know the right stats. It can get confusing, but that's why I have you guys to keep me straight:yahoo:

Pitcher gets a strikeout. Catcher gets the putout (if she catches it).

ATEC for Defense - Putouts:
Credited to the catcher
a - when the batter is called out for an illegally batted ball,
b - when she legally catches a third strike,

 

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Just want to point out that from the playing rules aspect, while this play is generically referred to as a "dropped third strike" the actual name of the rule is "uncaught third strike".

That is, it doesn't require the catcher to actually drop the ball (as in a passed ball). Simply having a strike that isn't caught satisfies the requirement of the rule. That could be a ball five feet over the catcher's head that the catcher never touched- and certainly a wild pitch!

 

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I thought the catcher got credit for the put out in a strike situation...

Copied from ATEC:

Defense: Putouts
Credited to the catcher
a - when the batter is called out for an illegally batted ball,
b - when she legally catches a third strike,

So, in all my scoring our catchers have a put out for every K. (except uncaught3rd)

I agree with you about carrying that around with you. I've created a copy without all the margins and stuff with serious cut and paste.

ETA: I see SoCal dad also copied same, too funny that our formatting is almost the same. bretman, thanks for the literal correction. I'm going to try to change my vocab! In fact, I will correct my statement above!

 

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Just want to point out that from the playing rules aspect, while this play is generically referred to as a "dropped third strike" the actual name of the rule is "uncaught third strike".

That is, it doesn't require the catcher to actually drop the ball (as in a passed ball). Simply having a strike that isn't caught satisfies the requirement of the rule. That could be a ball five feet over the catcher's head that the catcher never touched- and certainly a wild pitch!

Thank you Bretman! Add "circle (not mound)" and it's three birds with one stone...

 

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Yeah you're right. Normal chain of events on a strikeout would be the pitcher would get an assist and the catcher would get the put out. On a dropped 3rd, the pitcher would get credit for the K, the 1st baseman would get the put out if the out was made and the catcher would get the assist. My bad;&

Now now.....Sideliner is right. An uncaught 3rd strike is not always a passed ball. It can be a wild pitch. Passed balls and wild pitches are not errors; they are a separate stats.

Len

 

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Thank you Bretman! Add "circle (not mound)" and it's three birds with one stone...

The only reason I mentioned this is that when folks talk about "dropped" third strikes, it can lead to the misunderstanding that the catcher must actually drop the ball for the rule to be in effect.

One post in this thread even said something like "the catcher dropped the ball, so it must be a passed ball". But the first post doesn't really mention how the third strike came to be "uncaught" or if the catcher even touched the ball. There are many ways you can have an uncaught third strike without a passed ball.