Gate fees are getting out of hand

[Heavy Hitter]

Heavy- yes MOST vendors are preapproved by Victory Park. Some TD's bring vendors of their own as well for tshirts, equipment, food, beverage, impulse buy etc.

Joebooe, I am not sure what your point is? Beer was sold at Victory Park during softball tournaments, if not by them, then by their approved vendors. I find it very hard to believe a TD allowed one of their food and beverage vendor to sell alcohol on Victory Parks's property with out their permission.

 

[Fastball19]

I talked to Tony last year about the gate fees going up to $5 from $3 and he said it was because of no beer sales that weekend but the prices never fell back down even when the beer started to flow again

 

[SMc4SMc]

Nationals/World Series - do the gate fees reflect the magnitude of the event, as well as the venue (fields, concessions, lodging, etc.) seem to soften the blow?

Personally, the vacation aspects haven't cushioned the blow as much as I thoughtt, but it's an experience the girls have enjoyed sooo its worth it .... more so upon reflection during quiet times discussing the good ol' days.

 

[WWolff]

Nationals/World Series - do the gate fees reflect the magnitude of the event, as well as the venue (fields, concessions, lodging, etc.) seem to soften the blow?

Personally, the vacation aspects haven't cushioned the blow as much as I thoughtt, but it's an experience the girls have enjoyed sooo its worth it .... more so upon reflection during quiet times discussing the good ol' days.

What are gate fee's at

ASA/USA Nationals

and

NSA Nationals

 

[Mike_Craig_-_Ohio USSSA]

NSA World Series has the gate fee built into the entry fee. $600 or $650 depending on whether 4 g/g or 5 g/g

 

[JOEBOO3432]

Heavy- I must be missing what your question is? All I was clarifying was that Beer or no beer being sold by a vendor at the Victory does not change the gate fee.

 

[JOEBOO3432]

I talked to Tony last year about the gate fees going up to $5 from $3 and he said it was because of no beer sales that weekend but the prices never fell back down even when the beer started to flow again

Fastball- Either you misunderstood or Tony misspoke...Either way again I will state that what the vendors are selling has no correlation to the gate fees.
Off the top of my head, the only time I can remember a fee raise being in consideration at VSP was a fast pitch tournament that the TD was bringing all the vendors, would only pay a nominal fee for the fields AND wanted part of the gate. I am sure you would agree that the park needs some revenue source to at least pay for the workers and park to be open. I think managers need to engage their tournament directors more deeply to understand where their fees are going rather than simply blame the park that is "renting" the fields.

 

[KillingMeSmalls]

We all hate paying gate fees, but the reality is that it is very expensive to operate a park, especially privately held ones like Victory. These parks need to recoup their money for labor and materials; so one way or the other as parent you will pay. This will either through a gate fee or a tournament entry fee. It would be nice if all tournaments were at the local community park and the fields maintained by the Coaches, but that is not the case.

 

[dawgpound19]

Yes we do all hate paying gate fees and we all understand that it is expensive to operate a park but instead of charging $5 per car which is reasonable and people are fine with, VSP charges $5 per person which makes you feel like you are getting raked over the coals for Friday-Sunday. If you have a typical sized family that's $50+ in just gate fees to watch your daughter play softball. Can we all agree that if VSP is charging $5 a person they could at least finish the dang park and concession stand and upgrade it so that it is a great experience for the girls, how about planting some trees that are larger than 6 feet so there is some shade instead of just concrete, dirt, and gravel? Oh and after paying $50 for the weekend in gate fees you can't bring food or drinks into the park. I think most people understand gate fees but when you feel like you are getting raked along with the no food or drink policy that's what really irritates people.

 

[JOEBOO3432]

Dawgpound- If Victory was "making so much money" as some of the comments have suggested and you are alluding to, don't you think the park would have completed all the planned construction and amenities? First and foremost, its a ballpark...a place for kids and adults to go and play their games. That should be the focus. All the other things are secondary to the game itself but DO add to the experience for players, fans and coaches alike. No one cares much for gates fees as many of us are accustomed to seeing at cyo basketball games, high-school football and basketball games, etc, etc as someone else previously mentioned.
So here is a fair question to be asked in the hypothetical: If you are paying $475 per team to play in a tournament and the park is being paid $10 per game or less for the fields and do not run their own concessions, what should the park be able to count on as their revenue stream? Also assuming that on Saturday (which is the strongest attendance day), on the average less than 1000 people pay a gate fee, and the park is open for 18hours including field prep time, what amount should the gate fee be allowing this park to actually stay in business let alone make improvements?

 

[dawgpound19]

Joeboo, I don't know the interworking or details of the business of VSP to accurately say what they should or shouldn't charge. I'd have to look at the numbers to determine what that number "should" be. If the park doesn't run their own concessions then why have the no food or drink policy other than to try and push vendor food, my assumption is that you would only do this because you get a kickback from the amount of vendor sales otherwise why else would you implement this rule? If the park doesn't get a kickback from vendors then why not make it family friendly and say sure bring whatever food/drinks you want for families, siblings, etc. at least that way families can save money on water, food, energy drinks, etc. If the park is not charging enough for teams to play on their fields then I'd say that is bad business management if the operating costs exceeds the incoming revenue from tournament fees. I don't see CYO, high school games as apples versus apples, for CYO the money is going to the league and church, high school games are going towards new equipment, jerseys, renovations, other athletic programs, etc. so you kind of know where the money is going. At ballparks where is that money going to? You are absolutely correct ballparks should be a place for kids and adults to go and play their games but I realize it is also someone's livelihood as well. For the Cinderella Classic there was approximately 55 teams in the tournament ages 12U through 18U, which at $475 (just going by your hypothetical number I'm not sure what the cost was) that is around $26,000, you add on an additional $8,000 in gate fees and that's $34,000 for one tournament. I do not know how much the park charges per field or per entry fee or anything of that nature but this was not a team sponsored event, T3 Rays pulled out of hosting the event based on a post earlier in the year so it was ran by Bob H who did a great job running the tournament as the TD. So since there was not a hosting team to split the revenue with was it still necessary to charge $5 a person and push vendor food on families or could they have said you know what we made enough money we'll only charge $5 for the whole weekend and allow families to bring in food/drinks... I get parks and hosting teams need to make money as a fundraiser or as their revenue stream I just don't like the feeling of being raked over the coals and I've been to VSP for the past 6 years and the same planned construction is still under construction... In the end it's not like we are going to refuse to pay to see our DD play ball especially after paying thousands on team fees, lessons, gas, hotels, etc. it's just a feeling of man... $5 a person and no coolers so I have to buy $2 waters and energy drinks and $6 sausage sandwiches.

 

[gcg3refs]

JOEBOO - I have played at Victory Park many times, baseball and fast pitch, I have also umpired at Victory park. That being said, the biggest gripe I think everyone has is that one cannot take drinks or snacks into the park as players' parents. On hot days, water and/or sports drinks are needed by every player, leaving that on the coach to take everyone's drinks in, is very cumbersome.
JOEBOO makes a great comment about other sports; try going to a AAU basketball or HS basketball games pretty much everyone has to pay $6 to get in,
Gate fees were $3/person 2 years ago at Victory Park, I remember giving back these fees to my parents, regardless, $5/person is really not that bad, part of playing travel sports. Maybe a weekend pass with a family discount can be looked at, that way those pesky 1 gamers on Fridays or Sundays won't be as bad. Is there a discount for senior citizens and say 12 & under people?

 

[softballmom2000]

Maybe look into sponsorships for your fields. 5.00 per person and then no outside food and drinks is just ridiculous. Or, maybe you should up the cost to have a game at your park to where it does provide a profit over the costs to run it. If you are not making money when organizations rent your park, then that is bad business, and that is not the fault of the parent bringing their family in to watch their children. It is also not their responsibility to make your park profitable.

 

[JOEBOO3432]

First off I want to thank most everyone that is engaging in this conversation. Good constructive dialogue almost always benefits all parties. Understand that most of the time that I post it is to correct misconceptions or misinformation so folks can develop an informed opinion based on fact rather than hearsay. For the record I have been coaching travel baseball since 2004 and I am fully aware of what families hope to get out of the experience. Here are a couple more answers to questions:
Dawgpound-Understand in many cases VSP is NOT hosting the tournament but simply renting fields to a TD of a tournament so all that money you speak of goes to the TD/organization and not to the park. VSP get fees for the field rentals and if it cannot meet a minimum level to cover the park costs, the gate fees are increased. The normal Gate fee at VSP remains $3 for almost all games and tournaments.Gate fees are not going into an individuals pockets; they are for things such as permanent utilities, field upgrades, equipment, transportation carts, park amenities, tenting on the plaza area, stages, etc.

 

[JOEBOO3432]

TO GCG3refs- As always, kids 12& under DO NOT PAY GATE CHARGES and Senior Citizens receive a $1 or $2 discount. Players and coaches are allowed to bring in their own personal coolers for hydration, water towels, etc. Families ARE welcome to bring food to the park but it is asked that they keep it in the plaza area and eat on the patio, under the tents, or tailgate....provided they throw their refuse in the garbage containers. The folks that are coming with the food trucks have an expectation that they will be supported by players, coaches and fans alike with food service and there have been plenty of healthy options along the way. There has been over 25 different food vendors there this year and more than half wont come back due to lack of sales. All that said, I'm curious why people are "upset" that the restaurant hasn't been completed when most want to bring their own food and beverage in anyways...

 

[JOEBOO3432]

softballmom- The higher field fees become, the more your personal player fees will escalate and become harder for families to afford travelball of any kind. The reason fewer tournaments are at public parks is because the cities cannot afford to maintain them any longer and are now subleasing them to other organizations. AS for whether the park makes money or not, that's VSP's decision to make since its purpose is to try an offer an affordable solution for leagues, tournament ball, geographically friendly, and increase amenities as cashflow improves. At the end of the day, the park needs to cover its costs whether it be through field rental fees and/or gate fees and special events. As I mentioned before, please don't get all over the parks for their gate fees without understanding who is running the tournament and how the expenses are shared.

 

[JOEBOO3432]

One last thing for those that have been paying attention, there is a girls fast-pitch facility that will be opening at the front end of Victory Park before the end of the year. Further, the restaurant building at the center of VSP is also scheduled to be completed in a coordinated effort with Leffew Fastpitch, Victory Park Ohio and the City of North Ridgeville.

 

[coachjwb]

Joe ... agree with you that debate is good, and I want to thank you for the information you are sharing as well as the calm manner you are presenting it in. I am sure there will be continued debate and some unhappiness about some of what is discussed, but I at least appreciate your side of the story, as well as the updates on the park.

 

[JOEBOO3432]

Thanks Coach. Your words are much appreciated. I think the deeper topics are vetted the better off everyone will be.

 

[default]

Joeboo3432, i feel you are really explaining yourself well here. I understand everyone is trying make ends meet here but each and every travel team that plays at victory park needs to know there is a gate fee. If you don't like it then keep it to yourself. The team fees help pay for the field maintenance, water, electricity, staff and other things. The gate fee pays for umpires awards etc. Just because many of you don't see upgrades now doesn't mean they aren't occurring. Also, fastball19, you need to get a clue before you make a statement. Finally, i will create a thread on victory park suggestions. I am sure joeboo will consider all comments.