Help me understand Please.

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Hello all.

It has been awhile. The past several months have been busy with softball. As an instructor its when my business picks up along with the excitement of the HS softball season. I got a big surpise this year. ;D

Got a call from my brothers daugther up there in Ohio. The conversations starts kinda like Guess what Uncle Elliott. I have been named starting pitcher of my JV softball team. At which point I gulped because I know she does not have that much experience as a pitcher. I was happy for her but a bit concerned. So I flew up to Ohio over the Easter weekend to give her and a couple of her teammates who also have limited pitching experience a few lessons. A great group of young ladies and a great experience. All of them where receptive to my suggestions.

(I got lucky I found cheap airline tickets. First time ever to Ohio. Usually pretty expensive.)

So as the season progresses my neice is doing pretty good for a pitcher that has not really had any extensive pitching experience. Then they get to the year end JV tournament and end up playing not against the JV teams they faced during the season but a JV team that is loaded with Varsity players. My question is how can this happen and why would it even be allowed? All it did was shatter any kind of confidence she had by having a good season as a JV pitcher. While it was a growth opportunity for her, and thats what I told her, its still not right at any level.

I would think there should be state rules against this in softball. I know that here in Texas it would not be allowed. Who or what organization determines the rules for softball in Ohio? I would like to have a conversation with them about this practice.

Thanks,

Elliott.

 

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I know nothing about the rules. But this happens in rec all-star tourney's too. You will get an all travel team that just put on all-star uniforms and the go around killing all the little rec teams. IMHO what good is that doing the stacked team? Whoopee they beat a bunch of 9/10 rec girls to get a trophy. It killed our girls confidence levels. So unfair. The tourney's say no travel teams but when they dress themselves down into all-star uniforms (they do all play rec too) that makes them fair.

 

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You are correct Elliot. It's not right for girls to play varsity all year and then move down to Jv just so the coach can get a win. This happens more than what I actually thought. There should be criteria in place that if a player starts and or plays a certain percentage of innings then they are not permitted to play down. Schools use something similar to determine if a player lettters in Varsity.

 

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Elliot--
I'm sure there might be a rule of some kind from OHSHA..maybe bretman can help with that one...sadly, there's probably nothing from stopping a coach to bring his JV girls back down from varsity and argue it was to get playing time, to give pitchers more work, etc....

in what's case, how can anyone monitor the use of travel girls in rec tourneys?....but, you'd figure the travel girls would have their own tourney to play in instead of whipping on rec girls..still, what's the criteria..if the other teams shortstop makes a good throw, is someone going to argue "TRAVEL" and scream at them like they were in "Invasion of the Body Snatchers?" I'm being sarcastic but you get my point..I can see coaches saying, "throw one in the outfield so no one knows"

and then, going back to Elliot, what about the JV girls who had their gazmetime taken away from girls playing down from varsity..as a player, and as a parent, that would bite if my DD was playing all year in the outfield, only to be benched by a 10/11th grader who played varsity alls season

no easy answers, i guess

 

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Only rule from OHSAA is 27 games in 23 dates (excluding year end tourney play), doesn't matter Varsity or JV - so that doesn't help you.....

 

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Statman-I see what your saying.We're not talking one or two players, I am talking a whole travel team-the bags-the helmets-the whole team. I just feel that is pathetic to feel the need to whoop on some little rec girls just to add another piece of hardware to your shelf. I as a parent would be upset if my travel daughter was playing down like that and crushing little teams in a rec tourney. But that is not the concern of this particular community. Win, win, win but I think when they are rule running every team in 4 innings what kind of coach would find that a challenge for his girls. Yeah!! We won a big rec tourney down in the country! It is just unfair to the 5 or so other teams in the tournament not to mention heartbreaking and self esteem crushing. Oh well.What are you gonna do?

 

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oh yeah, i totally understand..there's times back when DD was playing REC and i was like, "if we had such-n-such, we'd play in this tourney and take names!" but in the end, how much fun would that be...i even remember playing rec and there was a rule about playing only 2 innings in a row in the infield...so, did i follow it? only the softball god knows. (insert devil face here)
.in the end, did you want to lose the game when it counted to Miss Error, or have the snarling atta-girl who was going to dive for the ball?
...but some parents/coaches are playing through their DD's and nothing comes between them and a trophy.

 

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Elliot, The Bear has mentioned the only rule that halfway applies. ?Also, Statman mentioned about the usual JV players who got replaced by the Varsity players in addition to the players on your niece's JV team that got blindsided. ?Everyone loses.

What-to-do: ?When my DD was playing 11U, we were looking at local tournaments to help save on expenses. ?We (the coaches) were looking at a particular tournament and mentioned to my DD and told her the teams that were already entered. ?Her reply: "What fun would that be?" ?Needless to say, we stepped back, reevaluated, and chose a more demanding tournament. ?"Out of the mouths of Babes".

 

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OK, so who do I write or call to address the rule?

Elliott

 

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Elliott, if you go to the O.H.S.A.A. web page, there you wil find contacts for the Board of Control members plus a contact list for just about everyone. Good luck in your quest and maybe this will encourage others to respond as well.

 

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Here is the link to OHSAA: http://www.ohsaa.org/

 

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Elliott,

I sent you a PM....question about your post.

Jack

 

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I got one even better than that. Our high school coach had a Sophomore pitch a Freshman game.
What the??????????? and was still able to sleep at night.... > ?And still has a job ?:'(

 

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BearMay is correct--27 games period at any level. There are no rules for JV/Varsity particpation in any sport in Ohio. I think it is more of an integrity issue. And just as there are rules for other things, for example, open gyms, instruction over the summer, etc.....you are going to have coaches who are going to find ways to "bend" those rules.

Tho there are coaches who do things like you mentioned Elliot, I think they are the exception, not the rule.

 

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Bill, I think you are right, they are the exception to the rule, but it's becoming much more common place. I was at a Jv game where one team team was undefeated, a school rivalry, the other school pulled down 6 of their starting varsity players including the P and C just to spoil the teams undefeated record. What does this prove? The school should have frowned on this!!! Why not address the issue now before it does become more of a problem in the future.

 

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Elliot,
Last year my sophmore daughter- pitcher- was put on the JV team as a 'swing' player.
The reason was so she would be starter for JV and get lots of playing time then occassionally get to play varsity.
Well.....She had already been varsity in freshman year. She ended up being the starting pitcher in all but the first three varsity games. And when the JV was 'shorthanded' she would 'fill in' We, as parents, were mighty pissed about his. It didn't happen often, just a few games. the others we said she was unavailable to fill in cause we didn't feel right about it.

This is a coaching thing. They planned to use my daughter to play on both teams. She was in both team photos too. We parents think it is crap too!
There are some people out there who don't know what - do the right thing- is and will do anything to put the trophy on the shelf.
(just so you know- my son plays Ice Hockey and the same things happens at the rink)

 

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I want to thank you all for the information and responses. I will let you know how my conversation goes with the commissioner. I am sure it will be interesting to hear his take on this situation.

Elliott.

 

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I would be surprised if they say anything interesting!

I think as long as the rule isn't broken re: 27 games in 23 days, that the OHSAA could care less about "fairness" in JV games.

Are there at least rules out there that Seniors can't play in JV games, and that upperclassmen can't play in Freshmen games?

 

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The year before last (not sure about last year) in the Central District, theycreated a category called JV-B team. This was created for schools that had a large number of freshman players but not enough for a full team. The JV-B teams allowed sophomores to participate. The JV-B teams played other schools JV-B teams or freshman teams - whichever they had.

 

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Our JV team was accused of bringing varsity players to a tournament this year. 8 out of 9 starters were freshman (all travelball players) that could not break into the varsity lineup full of seniors and juniors. We also had teams pull varsity girls down in the middle of the game against us.
If a "varsity" player is sitting the bench and not getting any playing time, I don't see a problem playing them JV to get at bats. If it is to only beat a certain team or win a tounament, then it is wrong and a slap in the face of your regulars on the JV team.