alborules
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Is Ohio Travel Ball Watered Down
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wow
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I understand your position. The point was ASA/USA are some of the best of the best in the country. If we are using this as a barometer on whether Ohio has teams can not only qualify BUT compete on the national stage, the numbers say we have a large base who can and did...
I did not research the other sanctioning bodies but any additional representation bodes well for Ohio and our ability to compete nationally.
I did not research the other sanctioning bodies but any additional representation bodes well for Ohio and our ability to compete nationally.
To use only ASA/USA may be an issue depending on where it is held. I would be suprised if any of the 12u Ohio teams are heading to Sacramento for ASA/USA this year. Judging by the teams signed up for NSA states, I am thinking that most of the top 12u teams are heading to Chattanooga for NSA Eastern Nationals as opposed to heading to California. I think as the teams get older you would see them travelling to CA, but not at the younger ages. I know a ton of 16s are trying to qualify for ASA/USA because it is in Chattanooga. I think the proximity of nationals does play a role in the number of teams making the top 25. Obviously the more Ohio teams that are there, the better the opportunity for us to place teams in the top 25.
Is Ohio watered down??? Compared to what is the question compared to fifteen years ago when all to players played for 4 teams then yes. But it's good thing as people get frustrated say watered down Ohio teams are doing as well as ever at nationals the last five years. So watered down is not a bad thing Susie who had talent but never would made top team now plays on lesser team develops her talent and when she outgrows the team she is on she moves on to better team. At the end of the day we all serve a purpose to build the strength of softball in the state of Ohio. More girls are playing which in turn leads to more girls developing talent that may not of had opportunity to do 15 years ago. Every year these same posts are on here why on average are div 1 high schools better than div 4 high schools? Because they have more kids to pick from. So all these teams popping up is doing nothing but building Ohio girls into better players which is good thing. I love this sport and appreciate all organizations and coaches out there working to build it up. if your team is dominating and you feel competition is weak you only blame yourself for your schedule there are tournaments out there for every level of play find the ones that push you and your girls and try take step to the next division up
I don't think the measurement of Ohio's success (or lack thereof) is measured only by how many elite teams make some national playoff or how many rec teams call Ohio home. I suspect that we will be successful when our national colleges can recruit quality players from their back yard.
We are making progress. Penn State (My apologies to Ohio but I couldn't find their historic rosters) had 8 players from California in 2008 and in 2015 they only had 4. They are beginning to find quality players closer to home. They do not have to take second tier Cali players when we are providing them an alternative that is closer to home.
The trend line is there, we've got to keep improving but we have far more players that are capable of playing this game at a high level than ever before.
We are making progress. Penn State (My apologies to Ohio but I couldn't find their historic rosters) had 8 players from California in 2008 and in 2015 they only had 4. They are beginning to find quality players closer to home. They do not have to take second tier Cali players when we are providing them an alternative that is closer to home.
The trend line is there, we've got to keep improving but we have far more players that are capable of playing this game at a high level than ever before.
wow
Active Member
fairman- good call out.. if you look at past rosters and where future rosters draw kids from... The data would hope to suggest more and more kids staying closer to home and less from warm weather zipcodes.
WOW!
The current OSU team has 12 Ohio players!
Who knows maybe you'll even have a player recruited to play for a top tier west coast team....
...oh thats right you already have one in Oregon's Jenna Lilley (North Canton, Ohio)
Keep up the good work Ohio. Go ahead and water down those travel teams some more, get more kids playing with better coaching pretty soon California will be complaining about all those blasted Buckeyes.
The current OSU team has 12 Ohio players!
Who knows maybe you'll even have a player recruited to play for a top tier west coast team....
...oh thats right you already have one in Oregon's Jenna Lilley (North Canton, Ohio)
Keep up the good work Ohio. Go ahead and water down those travel teams some more, get more kids playing with better coaching pretty soon California will be complaining about all those blasted Buckeyes.
Isn't the pitcher from Bloom-Carroll heading to Washington also, or has that changed?
dalemurphy3
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The problem with Ohio Softball is not being watered down, crap have you watched our girls play at any Ohio Tourney. These girls play light years better than girls in the 80's or 90's. How could they not. Most go to Pro camps, Hitting, Pitching, Fielding, catching, and now Sports excelleration coaching. They watch film of themselves batting, fielding, catching, and fielding. There parents can yell about stance and show them in slow mo on there phones right after the at bat. If you think this is watered down then you really are wanting these 9year olds through 18 year olds to do things you would expect pro baseball players to do. Some expect more. Thats the real problem.
Vision... To many of us have this picture in our head, a picture that is always getting corrupted with every inning we watch espn softball. Tranna throwing 70's my 12U DD better get of her butt and start working toward 75. We see a girl hit two home runs in the college world series and we think man I better get the DD a better batting coach and probably a strength and conditioning coach. Some girl on ESPN runs to first in 2.5 seconds and we are out buying parchutes to put behind the girls to make them faster during the game.
Friends watering down is not the problem. Economics is the problem. We are now entering the age group were the economic crisis hit and parents had to cut back. Pitching is probably the hardest hit, and what you are always looking on OFC for. The amount of money I have spent on pitching and batting lessons over the last five years would have payed for her first year of college. Many parents have not been able to do that. Many girls who would have been great pitchers had to make a choice play another position or switch sports. And many have done just that. So when you have a vision, especially programs that are used to seeing something elses the last few years, then you feel there are to many teams and not enough of what you think is elite.
I was part of and coached a very talented group of girls, under the banner of Valley Storm Weaver, I had to always watch what my vision was when trying out girls. The people on here from the bigger organizations like Lasers and Stingrays they see 100's of girls and show hundreds of girls the door. Us being from a smaller area in Dayton we had to work hard to get 30 girls to a tryout, and half those girls had all ready made up there mind because they had been to one of these so called big time tryouts and shown the door. Vision is the problem and we as coaches need to focus on making the talent we have better rather than showing them the door. Do I dare say Basketball and Volleyball, they love when we show talent the door. We need to focus on keeping the cost of the game down, and work to make as many talented girls better. My goal was always to be part of top notch organization in the Dayton area, and help keep it that way so local girls could afford to play our beloved game. The problem was always the vision of people who are always wanting more without sacrafice. Vision is the problem, you cant have a winner unless you experience a little sacrafice, and wins, losses, and trophys do not a winner make. Enjoy the year friends and quit worrying about the prize at the peak.. You never get there because you are always changing the vision. Have a good one Todd Weaver, might have been a Rant and Rave sorry.
Vision... To many of us have this picture in our head, a picture that is always getting corrupted with every inning we watch espn softball. Tranna throwing 70's my 12U DD better get of her butt and start working toward 75. We see a girl hit two home runs in the college world series and we think man I better get the DD a better batting coach and probably a strength and conditioning coach. Some girl on ESPN runs to first in 2.5 seconds and we are out buying parchutes to put behind the girls to make them faster during the game.
Friends watering down is not the problem. Economics is the problem. We are now entering the age group were the economic crisis hit and parents had to cut back. Pitching is probably the hardest hit, and what you are always looking on OFC for. The amount of money I have spent on pitching and batting lessons over the last five years would have payed for her first year of college. Many parents have not been able to do that. Many girls who would have been great pitchers had to make a choice play another position or switch sports. And many have done just that. So when you have a vision, especially programs that are used to seeing something elses the last few years, then you feel there are to many teams and not enough of what you think is elite.
I was part of and coached a very talented group of girls, under the banner of Valley Storm Weaver, I had to always watch what my vision was when trying out girls. The people on here from the bigger organizations like Lasers and Stingrays they see 100's of girls and show hundreds of girls the door. Us being from a smaller area in Dayton we had to work hard to get 30 girls to a tryout, and half those girls had all ready made up there mind because they had been to one of these so called big time tryouts and shown the door. Vision is the problem and we as coaches need to focus on making the talent we have better rather than showing them the door. Do I dare say Basketball and Volleyball, they love when we show talent the door. We need to focus on keeping the cost of the game down, and work to make as many talented girls better. My goal was always to be part of top notch organization in the Dayton area, and help keep it that way so local girls could afford to play our beloved game. The problem was always the vision of people who are always wanting more without sacrafice. Vision is the problem, you cant have a winner unless you experience a little sacrafice, and wins, losses, and trophys do not a winner make. Enjoy the year friends and quit worrying about the prize at the peak.. You never get there because you are always changing the vision. Have a good one Todd Weaver, might have been a Rant and Rave sorry.
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Softball01
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That hasn't changed, Taran is still heading to Washington after graduation.
BouldersDad
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If you could go back to 2005 you would not see this topic what you would see is how do we get ohio kids on big program rosters or at the worst out of state rosters. The growth in this sport in the last 10 years is mind boggeling.
I can remember being lambasted by the local rec mentality for mentioning that if you want to go to college out of state you have to play out of state and for supporting orgs and coaches that had out of state tb schedules.
Fast forward 10 years and what do you know, we have more kids than ever playing for high profile out of state colleges. How did it happen?. Some coaches had the forethought to take the kids where college coaches recruit.
Now we are at a point where Ohio kids are making themselves known. Its pretty normal for the top tier teams to spend 3/4 of their season traveling out of state to the biggest recruiting events ( That would have been ridiculed 10 years ago ) Now we want more. More elite kids more elite teams to make Ohio more of an impact state in Softball.
The talent in Ohio has not been watered down so much as not cultivated . The amount of rec players seeing their heros on tv and wanting that and believe me they want it bad and there is nothing wrong with it, it gives the kids a dream and a focus and they have started doing more private instruction than ever before. More teams are traveling out of state, more kids are going to those high profile teams, so what is the issue we all know and feel but cant quite explain..... pure and simple its coaching good solid basic fundamental at the 10,12,and 14 u level.
The amount of kids has doubled but the same amount of highly skilled coaches have not. This is the next growing pain we are feeling in the state of Ohio. No matter how skilled your team is by private instruction you need leadership. You need good coaching.
What I see at the 16/18 level is the vast majority of kids no longer have the 5 tools when reaching the recruiting age. And im not by my self in this alot of college coaches I talk to say they have seen a drop off in skill level before college not only in Ohio but other states as well. And I think this is because there are more and more kids playing and the instruction cannot keep up.
Am I saying all kids in Ohio are worse. Nope the amount of kids playing higher level proves that. What im saying is there are more kids that want to play than good coaches to teach them.
I can remember being lambasted by the local rec mentality for mentioning that if you want to go to college out of state you have to play out of state and for supporting orgs and coaches that had out of state tb schedules.
Fast forward 10 years and what do you know, we have more kids than ever playing for high profile out of state colleges. How did it happen?. Some coaches had the forethought to take the kids where college coaches recruit.
Now we are at a point where Ohio kids are making themselves known. Its pretty normal for the top tier teams to spend 3/4 of their season traveling out of state to the biggest recruiting events ( That would have been ridiculed 10 years ago ) Now we want more. More elite kids more elite teams to make Ohio more of an impact state in Softball.
The talent in Ohio has not been watered down so much as not cultivated . The amount of rec players seeing their heros on tv and wanting that and believe me they want it bad and there is nothing wrong with it, it gives the kids a dream and a focus and they have started doing more private instruction than ever before. More teams are traveling out of state, more kids are going to those high profile teams, so what is the issue we all know and feel but cant quite explain..... pure and simple its coaching good solid basic fundamental at the 10,12,and 14 u level.
The amount of kids has doubled but the same amount of highly skilled coaches have not. This is the next growing pain we are feeling in the state of Ohio. No matter how skilled your team is by private instruction you need leadership. You need good coaching.
What I see at the 16/18 level is the vast majority of kids no longer have the 5 tools when reaching the recruiting age. And im not by my self in this alot of college coaches I talk to say they have seen a drop off in skill level before college not only in Ohio but other states as well. And I think this is because there are more and more kids playing and the instruction cannot keep up.
Am I saying all kids in Ohio are worse. Nope the amount of kids playing higher level proves that. What im saying is there are more kids that want to play than good coaches to teach them.
I fail to see the connection between the quality of Ohio teams and the Olympics. The elimination of softball from the Olympics has more to do with the lack of cooperation of Professional Baseball than anything else.
Of course there are a vast number of water-down weak rec teams. They are the way most players are introduced to softball. Thousands upon thousands of young girls play at the local park with their friends. Some move on and play at a slightly higher level on community Travel Teams; some few jump to the more series regional travel teams that go to the larger showcases/tournaments and then there are the very few truly elite teams that play a national schedule, significant travel every weekend with a small number highly dedicated players drawn from across a vast region.
Softball is a pyramid in every sense of the word, very, very few at the top and a lot of kids at the lowest levels.
Our best are getting better and our average player has significantly higher skills and focus than ever before.
Of course there are a vast number of water-down weak rec teams. They are the way most players are introduced to softball. Thousands upon thousands of young girls play at the local park with their friends. Some move on and play at a slightly higher level on community Travel Teams; some few jump to the more series regional travel teams that go to the larger showcases/tournaments and then there are the very few truly elite teams that play a national schedule, significant travel every weekend with a small number highly dedicated players drawn from across a vast region.
Softball is a pyramid in every sense of the word, very, very few at the top and a lot of kids at the lowest levels.
Our best are getting better and our average player has significantly higher skills and focus than ever before.
Fuuny you say that, I made that pyramid for my dd back in 2011. LOL.
cobb_of_fury
Member
Why do we insist on aspiring to make Fastpitch an Olympic Sport? Curling is an Olympic Sport, Badminton is an Olympic Sport...
Fastpitch needs to be a Major League Sport - Not an Olympic Sport.
Can we please set our goals a little higher than the joke that is the Modern Olympic Games?
And so ends my rant - Thanks
USA!, USA!
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As the softball games start to appear on sports channels every one should count how many girls from Ohio have made it to high D1 schools maybe five, Ohio is not a breeding ground for great softball players because it is watered down a lot.
cobb_of_fury
Member
Ohio is not the breading ground that Texas, California and Florida is because we have this thing called winter that screws everything up -
The girls who are playing today would make mincemeat of the girls playing 10 years ago -
Girls today are specializing in softball (Unheard of) they have pitching coaches (Unheard of) they have hitting coaches (Unheard of) some have defensive coaches (Unheard of) they do sports training (Unheard of)
The other reason TX, CA, and FLA have more good players is because they have MORE PLAYERS...
It is a mathematical fact - There are more girls playing softball in Ohio now than ever before that increases the opportunity for better girls to come out of the mix -
When there were 6 teams in Ohio - it probably seemed like they were all fantastic players because you had nothing to compare them to.
10 years ago there was not 5 D1 palyers - today there is - that is progress - In five years maybe 25 D1 players -
As long as we give girls oppertunity to play - The number will grow exponentially
... Can someone post a list of current D1 Players from OH - I gotta bet the number exceeds Five this year.
Thanks
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cobb_of_fury
Member
YES you got me - If by watered down you mean more and better girls are playing it then YES - if thats your deffinition of watered down - Ohio softball is all watered down...
Lasers 04 Coach Mike
Member
Awesome Post!
