OHSAA Email Regarding Club Team Rules

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From: Roxanne Price [mailto:rprice@ohsaa.org]
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:28 PM
To: Roger Delawder
Cc: 'Debbie Moore'
Subject: RE: Club Softball Ruling


Roger:

I believe we just spoke. For OHSAA purposes there are two teams---school teams and non-school teams. You will find that we use the terms interscholastic team or interscholastic squad and non-interscholastic team or non-interscholastic squad.



If girls play for an interscholastic team (school team) then they have to abide by all bylaws and sports regulations of the OHSAA. This means that if they play for a school team this spring, they are restricted in terms of the number of girls that can play together after the school season in these May tournaments. Our bylaw only permits four girls from the same school team (7th and 8th grade teams are considered one school team) to participate together (this includes practices) outside of the season, with the exception of from June 1-July 31. During June 1-July 31, there is no restriction on the number of girls that can participate together.



If the 7th grade girls are not part of a school team this year, they have no restrictions on them. The school itself would have to define/determine whether it sanctions/sponsors/recognizes a school team. If it does not, then it would have no administrative authority whatsoever over this team and the girls would not be members of a interscholastic team.

Regards,

Roxanne








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From: Roger Delawder [mailto:Roger.Delawder@CSBANKING.COM]
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:45 AM
To: rprice@ohsaa.org
Subject: Club Softball Ruling



We are trying to figure out what are the guidelines for Club Softball, sponsored by the board of directors or not. A lot of your 12U travel softball teams are concerned with eligibility because the girls are now in the 7th grade. There is travel tournaments being posted for early May, I coach Junior High Club as well as Travel Ball and my Club team is not Board sponsored but I have girls on both of my teams. I need a clear understanding so I can let a lot of coaches of Club and Travel know what the exact rule is.



Thank you,



Roger D. Delawder

 

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This is the same letter/e-mail I received as well. Thanks Roger for the postingof it. Hopefully, this clears it up.

 

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I have talked to our Middle School and HS AD about this new rule. Their interpretation is that if the Middle School ?club team? carries the school name that it is considered a sponsorship by the school district. Also if your ?club team? plays in a league that has school team(s) that are sponsored by their school district the entire league needs to follow OHSAA rules. So bottom line is if your daughter plays travel ball and wants to play Middle School ball she will have to wait until the HS softball season is over. My daughter will not be playing Middle School softball.

 

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What was said if the school administration recognizes the school team... then it is a school team. But, as always, a club team prior to June 1st or after July 31st... can only have 4 team members from the same school.

I confirmed this with Goshen Athletic Director and then contact Roxanne personally myself via telelphone who forwarded the above e-mail.

You might want to have your school AD contact Roxanne... as a school team is a team made up of players from the same school ... and sponcered and recognized by school administration.

Any travel team, prior to June 1st and after July 31st... cannot carry more than 4 girls from any one school district.... unless it is a National event where the dates run after August 1st.

 

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OK I understand the no more than 4 player rule, but what about the participation/ practicing with, your travel team, while on the middle school team??

 

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They can play on the school team.... and can play on a travel club team AS LONG AS THE TRAVEL TEAM HAS NO MORE THAN 4 PLAYERS FROM ONE SCHOOL ON IT.

The whole idea is for the school team NOT to play travel ball AS A TEAM (SAME TEAM) at one time.

 

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I think I now see why some players decide to pass up school ball to have more play time in travel ball with players they want to be with. It is sad that at early ages they have to choose not to play one or the other. Rules are Rules ....... some Good some Bad, depends on what you are looking for. Power House Team Rule would best describe this. Everyone will have to follow that same rule but how many suffer for it as well? Could have been players that will step out for more field time.

 

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So bottom line is if your daughter plays travel ball and wants to play Middle School ball she will have to wait until the HS softball season is over. My daughter will not be playing Middle School softball.

I do not believe this is correct. The appropriate date for determining whether the middle school player can play travel ball is the date that the middle school season is over, which may be earlier than the high school team's season.

OK I understand the no more than 4 player rule, but what about the participation/ practicing with, your travel team, while on the middle school team??

I don't believe that quakerman's response to this question was correct. NO MATTER HOW MANY GIRLS FROM THE SAME MIDDLE SCHOOL ARE INVOLVED, a player on a school sanctioned team cannot participate on a travel team (including practice) while the school team is in season.

 

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OK I understand the no more than 4 player rule, but what about the participation/ practicing with, your travel team, while on the middle school team??

If it is a sponsored team, you cannot practice with your club team in any fashion until the school season ends.

 

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I believe you both are wrong. The wording is school sponcered teams. If you play travel ball before June 1st or after July 31st (except National events) you can only play on a team that has no more than 4 players from one school district.
That has been the rule forever.

What they don't want is teams made from the same school playing not only together in a school league BUT ALSO play travel ball as the same team with ALL the girls from the same school district playing travel ball together.

Same rules as it has always been. Before you post on here... why don't you have your AD not only tell you.. but make the AD find out for themselves from Roxanne.

You can e-mail her all you want to ... she will never e-mail back unless you are an AD or in my case a State Director.

She even stated to me via telephone that a lot of AD are confused and should find out the rules....lol... being it concerns their school district and they are in charge of eligibility and watching out over themselves.

 

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Joe A. tell them the rule, please . Go see Joe A. response on the other thread on Page 5 .

 

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I guess I am lucky. Urbana only has a High School team. Nothing at the Jr. High Level. So the young ladies in Jr. High In the Urbana School District have nothing to worry about except their travel teams.

 

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What other thread? And as much as I love Joe, I don't need him to interpret a clear rule that I've read over and over:

"1-5-2 If and when a school or school district sponsors or authorizes a varsity, subvarsity, 7th or 8th grade squad/team that competes with other interscholastic squads in a recognized sport, the school or school district shall be responsible for assuring that any and all such squads/teams comply with all OHSAA Bylaws and Sports Regulations, particularly those related to scholarship, age limitations and contest limitations. For purposes of this Bylaw, a “sponsored” team or squad shall include any “club” sport or team/squad.

10-3-1 A member of an interscholastic squad sponsored by the Board of Education or other governing board shall not participate in a contest, tryouts or any type of training or practices on a non-interscholastic squad or as an individual in a team sport (See Bylaw 10-3-4), in the same sport during the school’s interscholastic sports season."

Tim, I'm not sure why your post assumes that I have rashly posted something that I haven't reviewed, but I HAVE reviewed these bylaws many times with an attorney's eyes. The question asked by Kyle (Crush1) is clearly covered by 10-3-1. A player on a school sanctioned team cannot participate on a nonschool team while the school team is in season. Even if the player is the only one from her school team on the travel ball team.

If Roxanne is telling you something different (and nothing in her response as quoted by rdelawder says anything inconsistent on the issue asked by Kyle), then she is wrong.

 

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1-5-2

If and when a school or school district sponsors or authorizes a varsity, subvarsity, 7th or

8th grade squad/team that competes with other interscholastic squads in a recognized sport,
the school or school district shall be responsible for assuring that any and all such
squads/teams comply with all OHSAA Bylaws and Sports Regulations, particularly those
related to scholarship, age limitations and contest limitations. For purposes of this Bylaw, a​

"sponsored" team or squad shall include any "club" sport or team/squad.
​

It is my interpretation that "CLUB" sport in this paragraph does not refer to "Travel Ball" but to something similar to French Club or Debate Club. Now when that Club team goes and plays other school sponsored teams, then that club team must follow all of the OHSAA Bylaws and Sports Regulations.

Roxanne did not fully answer your question.
​

 

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Play indoors and you don't have to worry about any of it!!!!

 

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"Our bylaw only permits four girls from the same school team (7th and 8th grade teams are considered one school team) to participate together (this includes practices) outside of the season"

OK, so here is another question: If 7th graders are not considered team members until after they have played in a school scrimmage or game, and 8th graders will no longer be part of the middle school team after they complete their last game of the season, exactly when are these 7th and 8th graders considered "one team"? My interpretation is: only during the current school season, and they can't play non-interscholastic ball during this time anyway. The 4 player limit is a moot point. Again, does this sound like over-regulation?

Maybe not a big issue, but just seemed silly this late at night.

 

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Here is the OHSAA Softball Regulations you are speaking about, Hope this Helps!

SOFTBALL-FAST PITCH 2008-09
4) Non-Interscholastic Participation
4.1) A member of an interscholastic fast pitch softball squad (any student who has played in a scrimmage, preview or regular season/tournament game as a substitute or
starter) sponsored by the Board of Education or other governing board shall not
participate in a non-interscholastic program (tryouts, practice or contest) as an
individual or as a member of a team in the sport of fast pitch softball during the
school?s season (Bylaw 10-3-1).

4.2) A member of an interscholastic fast pitch softball squad (any student who has played in a scrimmage, preview or regular season/tournament game as a substitute or starter) sponsored by the Board of Education or other governing board may participate in
non-interscholastic fast pitch softball prior to and after the school season under the
following conditions:

4.21) The number of interscholastic fast pitch softball players from the same school
on a non-interscholastic squad is limited to four on the roster of that noninterscholastic
squad. A roster is defined as all the members of the entire squad on that non-interscholastic squad.
Note: Graduating seniors who are participating on a non-interscholastic fast
pitch softball squad after their final interscholastic contest of the season in the
sport of fast pitch softball are exempt from this limitation.4.22)
There is no limit on the number of fast pitch softball squad members from the
same school participating on the same squad during the period June 1-July 31.

4.23) A player may continue to play with a non-interscholastic squad in a national
qualifying tournament in excess of the four player limitation after July 31
until the squad is eliminated but no later than Labor Day.

4.24) Non-interscholastic participation includes tryouts, training, practice and
competition.

4.3) A student may not play in a non-interscholastic fast pitch softball contest, game or
scrimmage, while a member of the school fast pitch softball squad, until the
student?s school team has completed its schedule. This includes tournaments when
applicable.

4.4) A girl playing on a school fast pitch softball team MAY participate on a non-interscholastic slow pitch softball team at the same time with the permission of the
school coach. This is not a violation since the OHSAA only recognizes fast pitch
softball as a sport.

4.5) An intramural team is a non-interscholastic team (Bylaw 10-2-1), and all rules for
non-interscholastic teams apply.

4.6) All-Star Games ? There are many directors of non-interscholastic competitions
that use the term ?All Star? in describing their events. Student-athletes in team sports
who wish to participate in one of these ?all star? competitions outside the interscholastic
season of their sports may do so without jeopardy to eligibility provided
the students maintain compliance with Bylaws 10-3-1 and 10-3-4.

The purpose of this special ?All-Star? regulation is to provide an opportunity for the
interscholastic team sport coach to coach players from his or her own school in a
competition that has the following components:
1) Participants shall be selected from at least four schools.
2) All participants shall be graduating seniors or students completing their athletic
eligibility at the end of the semester.
3) Participants shall play in no more than two All-Star games.
SPORTS REGULATIONS
2008-09 SOFTBALL-FAST PITCH
4) Participants shall not participate until after they have participated in their final
contest for their school (Bylaw 10-3-1).

Penalty: For a senior, violation of this regulation may result in the loss of athletic
eligibility for the balance of the school year. For all other students, the penalty may
result in loss of eligibility for the ensuing season in the sport in which the student
participated in the All-Star contest.

4.7) Participation in indoor fast pitch softball is not a violation of OHSAA non-interscholastic team Bylaw 10-3-4 for student-athletes.

4.8) In accordance with Bylaw 10-3-6, interscholastic fast pitch softball coaches are
prohibited from coaching their own interscholastic squad members in indoor fast
pitch softball except for 10 days from June 1?July 31.

4.9) Individual Non-Interscholastic Competition Dates:
A fast pitch softball athlete who has not participated for a school team in fast pitch
softball that season must cease non-interscholastic fast pitch softball competition
six weeks (42 days) prior to the Monday of the State Tournaments in fast pitch
softball in order to be eligible for OHSAA Tournament competition provided
applicable Bylaws and Regulations

 

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Here is the OHSAA Softball Regulations you are speaking about, Hope this Helps!...

4.21) The number of interscholastic fast pitch softball players from the same school
on a non-interscholastic squad is limited to four on the roster of that noninterscholastic
squad. A roster is defined as all the members of the entire squad on that non-interscholastic squad.
Note: Graduating seniors who are participating on a non-interscholastic fast
pitch softball squad after their final interscholastic contest of the season in the
sport of fast pitch softball are exempt from this limitation.....

HELLO, MR. Obvious? These people can't be this pompous and dumb can they.

 

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I don't make the Rules, I just Officiate the Games. LOL!

 

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Just saw this thread. quakerman, I'm afraid cgs is correct here. If someone is playing official school ball, they can't practice or play with their travel team during the school season. That rule has been well-understood.

The four-player rule applies to student/athletes from one school playing outside of the June 1/July 31 exception. It is separate from the rule I discussed in the first paragraph. It states that no more than four players from a school can play together (except for indoor ball) from Aug. 1 until the official start of practice in the winter.

Bill, I'm not following your thinking on this. That rule is talking about school teams that are labeled club teams (meaning recognized by the school but not funded by the school), but are involved in OHSAA recognized sports. Those club teams must now follow OHSAA rules. The rationale I imagine is that the OHSAA wants to eliminate a school from making a sport a "club" sport and thereby escaping OHSAA bylaws. This might be happening as some sports might be funded entirely by the participants and not at all by the school.

I think this is what Roxanne must have meant when she said an AD could simply choose to call a sport a club sport. She didn't mean a school could label some travel softball team a school team. I think the OHSAA is trying to keep schools from saying their varsity softball team, for example, is a school "club" team and thus escaping OHSAA bylaws.

Now that more and more districts are making sports teams be entirely self-sufficient, this rule prevents schools from just calling them club teams and escaping the OHSAA tentacles.