OHSAA pitching limits?

[ech92]

I may be in the minority here, but I think there should be a pitch count just like baseball. I would propose something like 10 innings every 2 days! What is wrong with making coaches develop other pitchers? Why should a " team sport " be dominated by 1 individual? I also do desperately wish they would mandatory the facemask for pitchers!!!

 

[Skeeter]

I may be in the minority here, but I think there should be a pitch count just like baseball. I would propose something like 10 innings every 2 days! What is wrong with making coaches develop other pitchers? Why should a " team sport " be dominated by 1 individual? I also do desperately wish they would mandatory the facemask for pitchers!!!

This is referring to school ball (most school coaches are not developing pitchers, they are getting players from their community that should have been developed at the lower level programs and already established as a pitcher by the time they get to the school level, IMHO). I do agree that a facemask rule should be implemented for at least pitchers.

 

[spartansd]

I like the idea of an innings limit or pitch count.

I guess my issue is at Districts and Regionals where we play 2 games on the same day. It will make for some seriously dicey games.

And the State Championship is played over a 3 day time period. So I would hope the #1 could pitch both the Semi and Final games completely.

On the flip side it would almost serve as a great tie breaker tool. After 10 innings the #2 goes in. For some teams, even at the State Finals, that could mean some serious excitement.

 

[coachjwb]

Ech92 ... I tend to agree with you. I also think it's a bit of a chicken and egg thing ... if there were pitching limits at all levels, there would be a good reason for some players to give pitching a try and then you'd see more at the higher levels as well. When you have teams almost exclusively using 1 pitcher today (or even travel teams using 2 pitchers in a weekend tourney where they might play 8-10 games), what incentive is there today for others to put in the time and effort to sit behind someone else? I could see easing some limits in over time ... for high school, I'd suggest something like 11 innings over 2 days initially (would allow 2 pitchers to cover periods where you play daily games), and maybe eventually a little less. For travel ball, that's a little trickier, but I'd throw out something like no more than 11 innings in a day, and 21 innings in 2 days.

 

[FastBat]

I may be in the minority here, but I think there should be a pitch count just like baseball. I would propose something like 10 innings every 2 days!

That typo'ed pitching limit was more strict than 12u Little League and they have some of the most strict pitching limits I've seen for softball, besides baseball. In SB LL the pitcher may pitch in 6 innings or less everyday of the week. If they pitch 7-12 innings, then 3 days rest. Pitching no more than 12 innings/day. I think by Little League 14u there are no pitching limits.

If a HS pitcher can't pitch the majority of <32 games in a 10 week period (Mid-March-end of May?), then IMHO the team has co-starting pitcher's, not that's there's anything wrong with that because maybe there isn't a clear starting pitcher.

Also, remember with HS ball, no travel ball season until after HS season is over.

 

[tankerlab]

I may be in the minority here, but I think there should be a pitch count just like baseball. I would propose something like 10 innings every 2 days! What is wrong with making coaches develop other pitchers? Why should a " team sport " be dominated by 1 individual? I also do desperately wish they would mandatory the facemask for pitchers!!!

[/QUOTE]
Yep you are in the minority on this one... Makes no sense at all. So what you are proposing is basically in a broad sense, require coaches to not play their starting players in all positions to "develop" future players?
That is what JV is for and substitution on varsity when the coach deems it...
My DD (coaches words) was varsity material her freshman year. They had log jam of good pitchers... The coaches made a great decision to put her on JV to pitch every game. (This rule would not allow that either...) She also played varsity. She DB'd and pitched now and then enough to "letter". Because of injury she was given the ball in the conference championship game against Glen Este and had 11 K's and walk off double in 7th inning.
She developed pitching every JV game. It was a wise decision and paid off. Last year in her Jr. year she pitched 144 innings. She was Team MVP, 1st Team All Conference ECC, 1st Team all Metro Cincinnati, Ohio 2016 Spring Sports All Stars 1st team D-1 and Co Player of the Year and All Ohio HM. All possible by good coaching and putting her in situations that developed her on the coaches terms not some dumb rule... last year her team had one other girl that "used to pitch" that was a freshman. That girl stepped up and said she would pitch. She developed well by playing when the coach deemed. Not by being forced to play by a rule... At beginning of season if that rule was in effect it would have destroyed that girls confidence and future of pitching. But with proper coaching and putting her in games in the right situations, she really blossomed and improved tremendously by end of year...

 

[Hilliarddad3]

Should absolutely be a rule, first it makes the team aspect come to life of you can't hide behind a stud pitcher. Second it will reduce injuries such as Tommy John Surgeries, snapped wrist bones, knee wear and tear and rods being inserted in kids backs to straighten their spines from overuse. I know three kids in two states that have in fact had that who were pitchers. Don't know any non pitchers who have had rods installed, coincidence? I think not.....

They will be ladies with life after softball and that takes precedence!

 

[coachjwb]

Tankerlab ... congrats to your DD on her outstanding high school career to date ... it obviously came from a lot of hard work! My DD pitched a lot of innings and really developed her game a lot during her high school career as well, so I can definitely relate.

With that being said, as I mentioned above, I am in agreement with Ech92 and now Hillarddad3 on this subject. I think the game would be better and it would be more healthy for many of the pitchers if there were pitching limits, just like there are in boys' baseball, though they obviously wouldn't need to be as restrictive in softball.

I will acknowledge that it would not be ideal and could really mess up the high school game if rule changes like this were initiated at the high school level and not at the middle school or younger travel and rec ball levels, because there would not be enough pitchers to go around for sure, and I'm guessing some schools would have to abandon their JV teams. Most high school baseball programs (i.e., varsity and JV programs) probably have no less than a dozen players who could pitch, while it's probably pretty rare for most softball programs to have more than a handful. At least part of the reason for this has to be that most little league baseball programs and tourneys, as well as the middle schools have these pitching restrictions which in essence creates more demand for baseball pitchers ... and we definitely don't have that in softball for the most part. Part of my premise is that we need more demand for softball pitchers before we have more of a supply.

 

[tankerlab]

Coachjwb, Let's agree to disagree... I can see your point that it would "create" more pitchers... Hilliarddad3 should we do the same for High School Football? Limit the Stud Quarterback playing time so the team can't ride him to a successful season? News flash... The teams that win have the best players... This almost puts me in mind of "participation trophies." Let's change the rules to make it all even... These girls are not pitching overhand...
Furthermore, Milford is a moderate size D-1 High School. (DD has 600 plus in her class) They had two pitchers in their program last year... TWO!!
You want more pitchers? It's a different world today... They are all playing soccer, lacrosse, water polo, underwater basket weaving, and other sports that were foreign sports back when I was in school... Yes coach you are right. This rule would fold a lot of JV programs... Would that be "good" for softball? Another point is there is a reason there is not a lot of pitchers especially in the higher levels. Many kids try pitching at lower levels and before High School. Then they see how much extra effort, hard work, time and parents see the money and time required and they give it up... Another question, if there was a pitching limit, why would travel ball be any different than High School? I assume the reason a pitch count would be implemented would be concern (lack of knowledge ) but unfounded concern for "safety" of the pitcher? Like I said earlier, if people are worried about safety, a face mask rule for pitchers is a no brainer...

 

[coachjwb]

Tankerlab ... just to emphasize a few points ...

* I noted a couple of times that it wouldn't be a good idea to just implement a rule like this all of a sudden at the high school level if the "supply" of pitchers hadn't been created by similar rules at the lower age levels, including in travel ball. I absolutely don't want JV programs to go away.
* At no point in my argument did I say anything about trying to make things "even", though I did imply I thought the high school game could be better (i.e., more balanced between hitting, pitching and fielding) if some schools just didn't thrive by having one stud player who they rode to death.
* I don't buy the analogy to a HS QB who plays a game once a week ... yeah, they practice every day but the coach has the control to not have him throw every day if he is concerned about his arm health. But here we're talking about potentially throwing full games day after day.
* There's an underlying assumption I'm making that throwing every day is not healthy for a pitcher ... and I am 100% behind the facemasks for pitchers (and corners) movement ... click on the SMART link above ... that's a team/effort I founded

I respect very much what you're saying, and I can tell you that my DD who was one of those pitchers who got rode in high school and college would support you and not me in this argument!

 

[tankerlab]

I hear ya coach! Lol.
I discussed this with my DD today while on our way to do Duck Calling seminars at Bass Pro Shops. She agrees with me. Her comment was if the pitchers had proper mechanics and stretch correctly before and after and ice down after, they would have no problem. Proper mechanics being the main key here. As a D-1 pitching coach told us years ago , if I don't see proper mechanics in a girl pitching I don't even look at her. At this level I do not have the time to teach proper mechanics even if they are hitting spots and have speed...

 

[FastBat]

Hey coachjwb...what time do you get up? And it's Saturday...those early morning games are no problem for you, lol!

 

[coachjwb]

Ha, Jen! I was a bit busy this weekend. Worked both Saturday and Sunday mornings on a physical inventory for my company, went to the Indians games both days as well, and am sitting here now trying to get up with all of the e-mails and some orders on wristband systems. I need to go to work tomorrow to rest up ... maybe I need some limits?!

 

[SAmMaydayMalone]

Should absolutely be a rule, first it makes the team aspect come to life of you can't hide behind a stud pitcher. Second it will reduce injuries such as Tommy John Surgeries, snapped wrist bones, knee wear and tear and rods being inserted in kids backs to straighten their spines from overuse. I know three kids in two states that have in fact had that who were pitchers. Don't know any non pitchers who have had rods installed, coincidence? I think not.....

They will be ladies with life after softball and that takes precedence!

At a big school, where you have multiple pitchers, this could maybe work. We're in SW Ohio and in reality most schools only have 1 pitcher that can get the ball over the plate with a speed over 50MPH. Makes for a terrible game to play and watch.

My DD, as I'm sure many of your DDs have, has thrown 6,7,8 games in a weekend. With proper warm-ups, stretching, cool down, and hydration it really is no problem IF you have proper mechanics. The things that goes first is the legs...ice baths are great for this.

HS softball is already painful to watch sometimes, this would make it unbearable.

 

[Fairman]

Pitch limits won't have the effect you are intending of opening more pitching opportunities and leveling the playing field. The schools with good local feeders programs will continue to dominate by producing an abundance of qualified pitchers while the schools without those programs now would have no chance to find a pair of competent pitchers.

This rule's only purpose should be to protect the players and not limit what can be achieved by a stud pitcher for a dominate team or increase the opportunities for the second stringers. A stud pitcher at 18 that can go every inning at every game, couldn't get out the 3rd as a freshman. The rule would apply to the 14 year olds was well as the 19 year olds. We do a disservice not allowing the pitchers that can pitch every day in HS to develop into seven inning/every day pitchers in college.

 

[tankerlab]

At a big school, where you have multiple pitchers, this could maybe work. We're in SW Ohio and in reality most schools only have 1 pitcher that can get the ball over the plate with a speed over 50MPH. Makes for a terrible game to play and watch.

My DD, as I'm sure many of your DDs have, has thrown 6,7,8 games in a weekend. With proper warm-ups, stretching, cool down, and hydration it really is no problem IF you have proper mechanics. The things that goes first is the legs...ice baths are great for this.

HS softball is already painful to watch sometimes, this would make it unbearable.

High School Softball is painful to watch???? And you said you are from SW Ohio?
I LOVE watching my DD's HS team Milford play! They could beat most Travel teams... Same with Mason... Lakota East, Lebanon, (many more so don't be offended if I skipped your school...) In a big school maybe? No I don't think so. Milford is a big school... Maybe if it was like back when I went to school and there was regular American Sports like Football, Basketball, Volleyball, golf, wrestling, Baseball, Softball... But too many other "foreign" sports on the scene now like Soccer, Lacrosse, water polo, underwater basket weaving... Takes good athletes away from mainstream Sports... Not enough girls on softball team... I do agree a pitch limit in Softball is stupid. And right on about proper mechanics!