OHSAA Rules and Travel Ball

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Ok very good Miller, Glad you stood up and said something, because that is the only way things get changed,,,,

Would of been great then to come back with: "The travel program may shut down the High School programs, but only due to OHSAA's restricive rules, and lack of enforcement of schools and coaches that refuse to follow the rules"

One more reason would be the cost of playing school ball versus Travel, when they become the same price one will go away

 

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No you can take individual (PAID) lessons. If your travel coach is also her instuctor, pay him a dime then take your lessons (pratice)

 

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Can someone explain this in plain English .. As I read the below rule ("A member of a school team shall not practice as an individual or member of a non-school team during the school season"). Are they saying you can not practice unless you are AT AN OFFICIAL school practice? If not then why does it say "as an individual"? So if you take private hitting or pitching or conditioning lessons you are in violation ..

4) Non-Interscholastic Participation
4.1) A member of an interscholastic softball squad (any student who has played in a
scrimmage, preview or regular season/tournament game as a substitute or starter) sponsored by the Board of Education or other governing board shall not participate in a non-interscholastic program (tryouts, practice or contest) as an individual or as a member of a team in the sport of softball during the schools season.

I think that means that even if you aren't on that travel team, you can't practice with that travel team as an individual.

Gosh, the longer I'm away from having to deal with these rules, the more antiquated they look. I understand rules limiting high school coaches, but for these high school athletic associations to try to tell families what is best for them when it comes to non-high school sports is so paternalistic and condescending that it would be laughable if it weren't reality. I wonder what the OHSAA would think if ASA made a rule that players could not participate in the 10 days in the summer with their high school teams? And why does the OHSAA condone these 10 days? After all, the girls are playing for another team and this is out of the high school season? If only one team at a time is in the girls' best interest in the spring, why doesn't that hold true for the summer?

 

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And thus.. the evils of OHSAA, Joe. The dinosaur of the Midwest.....

 

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I actually had a conversation with an OHSAA representative on this very issue. You cannot practice with a non-school (travel) team if you are playing on a school-sponsored team. However, you can take lessons or practice on your own, as long as it is not part of the travel team practice, and you are not practicing as a team. You do not need to pay the instructor, as that would eliminate dad throwing bp to DD, or mom setting balls on a tee, or uncle hitting pop-flys. There is no requirement that you pay your instructor. And, you can have multiple players getting individual instruction at once, as 5 girls all taking "hitting lessons" at the same time. From my conversation, I believe it is totally within the rules to have multiple girls getting hitting lessons at the same time, but you cannot take infield practice. However, you could work on "fielding practice" as well if it is instructional, and not a team activity. That is why the rule is so archaic. The line is too easy to blur. You could have your entire travel team show up for "hitting instruction", and as long as you don't do it as a "team activity", you would be within the rules. Doesn't that sound somewhat ridiculous? As for my team, I have one player that is on a school-sponsored team this year. She is going to show up and get her hitting instruction, but not participate in conditioning or infield. She will also get work on her catching and throwing, but as an individual, and not with the rest of the team. I'm not sure how this makes a difference, but we are going to abide by the rules.

 

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That is why I said to pay a dime or what ever amount. Then in no uncertain terms is it a team pratice but Paid individual instruction, no matter what instruction that may be infield, outfield, hitting, pitching. You are allowed by their own stupid logic and reasoning to do this. Go figure....... I guess a Buerocrat is a buerocrat no matter where his position of power may be.

 

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That totally contradicts what ohsaa told me last month. I asked that exact question about hitting practice and also playing in tournaments. I told them I wanted something in writing and they told me which by-laws and which words to look at for specifics which I posted.

I asked them if we could just have indoor hitting and was told "No" it violates the rules. Was told in no certain way that once the school coaches start coaching then travel season ends. I asked if we could call it "open gym" or "individual practice" and was told....."It's your players eligibility on the line, don't take the chance by playing word games with the rules".

They are really messed up if they are telling different people different things...

 

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That is why I said to pay a dime or what ever amount. Then in no uncertain terms is it a team pratice but Paid individual instruction, no matter what instruction that may be infield, outfield, hitting, pitching. You are allowed by their own stupid logic and reasoning to do this. Go figure....... I guess a Buerocrat is a buerocrat no matter where his position of power may be.

Then I'd have to worry about 1099's and the IRS, and paying village tax on all my earnings:lmao:

Valley Storm - I guess my thought is that if I am individually instructing one of my players, then OHSAA can't do anything about it. Are they telling me that I can't throw BP to my daughter during school ball bc I am her travel coach? I don't think they know what the rules are, and they don't really care. Maybe they still thought it was team practice, and not individual instruction?

 

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They are really messed up heat97. I told them I wanted to bring in my players 2 at a time for hitting practice just to keep them fresh and thats when they said "No".

 

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Then I'd have to worry about 1099's and the IRS, and paying village tax on all my earnings:lmao:

Valley Storm - I guess my thought is that if I am individually instructing one of my players, then OHSAA can't do anything about it. Are they telling me that I can't throw BP to my daughter during school ball bc I am her travel coach? I don't think they know what the rules are, and they don't really care. Maybe they still thought it was team practice, and not individual instruction?

No your safe there,. there is a part where you can teach your blood kin ,,not in those exact words but you get my meaning, as far as 1099 goes your safe also. youll have by the end of school ball about 25 bucks lol, donate it to a homelss person youll feel good about yourself

 

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They are really messed up heat97. I told them I wanted to bring in my players 2 at a time for hitting practice just to keep them fresh and thats when they said "No".

I see the difference ValleyStorm, you want hitting practice, if you would of asked to give hitting instruction then you would of been fine. Practice versus Instruction, 2 totally different things. As long as you are instructing your ok!! LOL

 

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:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

 

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I think the OHSAA has been pretty consistent over the years about saying you can't do anything with travel teams or coaches once high school gets going ... only question I have heard inconsistency on was whether this was at first practice/tryout or scrimmage/game. The other question has always been around father coaches ... but to date I have never heard of OHSAA coming in between a parent and child ... I would love to take that one to court if they did, so I was never concerned about that one.

 

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I like when you guys take jabs at the OHSAA people. Especially on this thread as one day I hope to present this thread to my local state senator who is the head of the Board of Education at the Legislative level and let him know we have problems here in Ohio.

My problem is what I want to do for the girls.

I want to have an event where there is travel monies for prizes to be able to help in going to a National, etc...

I suggested 1500 for 1st Place and 1000 for second. I call NCAA to ask their eligiblity opinion. They had no problem at all. Even explained parent expenses can come from that fund. But, kinda laughed at the 1500 dollars amount as I was told there are a few in California with larger amounts, etc.... So it wasn't nothing to them.

OHSAA - big problem with them. The NCAA calls Ohio a dinosaur..lol

Next Uniform Blowout....figured a way around their thoughts. It is in the wording... and they hinted towards that.

Problem is: OHSAA is the problem. There are so many gray areas in their by-laws.. just enough to keep people confused .

Solution.. get rid of all the silly regulations they have and upgrade themselves to equal out to NCAA Standards at a minimum. Then allow the Ohio girls the same access to events that equal themselves with the out state teams giving them the same chance at NCAA scholarships as teams from other states...... the Federal Courts is the only way to settle things with OHSAA and to show the disparity of opportunities by living in one state versus girls in Ohio.

 

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What bothers me the most, is that most HS Athletic Directors think that the HS coaches can do more for player development than Travel Organizations.

I know there are some GOOD high school coaches and there are some BAD travel coaches out there. But my experience has shown that many HS coaches are non-qualified, but well intentioned, history teachers who are "coaching" for the extra money.

Most travel coaches aren't in it for the money, and bring valuable training to the practices. They actually help the players more than the HS school system does. (and don't have to succomb to Booster Pressure, AD influence, Parents, etc...)

There are exceptions to this theory, and I'm sure I'll hear about them.

But, my opinion is that OHSAA and high school programs retard player development.

 

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This is the type of situation the OHSAA has no business being involved in. If this student wants to go play "tackle" football he should be allowed. If he chooses to he will be reprimanded by the OHSAA and unable to play HS ball. WHAT A CROCK!!!

A. Football Regulation 4.41.3, Mr. Charles Ticknor III, re: An 8th-Grade Student, Jackson Middle School
(Southeast District)
An eighth-grade student at Jackson Middle School has been invited to participate in a youth All-American
game in January and the OHSAA has ruled that the student would be in violation of Football Regulation
4.41.3, which states that participation in tackle/contact football outside the school season is prohibited. The
student?s father, Jake Betschel, and attorney Nicole Elps appealed the ruling so that the student can participate
in the contest and other All-American game activities without penalties.
Motion by Jose Hernandez, second by Dave Gray to deny the appeal to permit the student to participate in
the All-American game.
Motion passed 8-0.