Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Pitching Distance

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Does anyone know if ASA has gone to 43 ft? Or when the decision will be made?

NSA and USSSA have already changed, to my knowledge, correct?

I'm looking for everyone's opinion..

Will it be hard for the pitchers to adjust going from an NSA/USSSA one weekend and an ASA the next? Especially for the 98's just moving up?
For the girls in high school already or preparing for it, would it be better for them to strictly attend 43ft tournaments?
How will you practice your pitchers? 40 or 43ft?

Or, is that 3ft just not that big a deal?

 

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Or, is that 3ft just not that big a deal?

No, it's not.

 

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I spoke with Ohio ASA Commissionor Warren Jones this week. He indicated that there has been no decision to move to 43 ft. as of yet. He said it was possible that it would be discussed at the national meeting in November.

 

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No, it's not.

I might have to disagree with this to some extent. It doesn't seem to affect the pitchers ability so much, as it affects the hitters ability to hit. The extra 3 feet gives them more of an advantage.

Pitchers need to really move the ball, change speeds, and hit their spots more than ever! Gone are the "Louisiana pitches" (Blew by you)! jmo ;&

 

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Is this question about 14U? And it makes quite a difference. In high school, there was a lot more offense and fewer strikeouts. Most of the strong pitchers still did OK at 43 feet, but it definitely hurt a few who were tough at 40 feet.

 

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Will it be hard for the pitchers to adjust going from an NSA/USSSA one weekend and an ASA the next?

We dealt with that all year, it seemed to affect our hitting more than pitching......hopefully the coach has some stats on how we batted and pitched at different distances. Alot more offense at 43' which means the pitchers are getting hit.

Or, is that 3ft just not that big a deal?

it is for a drop ball, if the pitcher doesnt make an adjustment its gonna land in front of the plate !

 

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We dealt with that all year, it seemed to affect our hitting more than pitching......QUOTE]

Ditto with us...pitchers were not fazed at all by the switching each week, but it took some time for the hitting to adjust.

 

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We dealt with that all year, it seemed to affect our hitting more than pitching......QUOTE]

Ditto with us...pitchers were not fazed at all by the switching each week, but it took some time for the hitting to adjust.

That was the biggest issue I saw all season from behind the plate. Saw some girls (at 43 ft) that looked like dead pull hitters and then saw them (at 40) and the were hitting more middle to right.

 

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For a "flat" fastball with little movement, it doesn't make a lot of difference. But for an advanced pinpoint pitcher who has learned good spin and ball movement, 3 feet makes a huge difference. Drops and curves that were polished to be effective at 40 feet will break too early, and pitches that were "nip the black" strikes will be well off the plate. Drops and backhand changeups will be in the dirt unless adjustments are made.

An excellent backhand change has to be thrown with more energy than a fastball, and when you add another 3 feet, you must add even more to it. To really sell that pitch to the batter, it must come in STRAIGHT with a lot of 4-seam backspin, then "fall off the table" at the last possible instant. If there is a visible arc (loop) the batter will see it, so it has to be coming straight towards the batters eyes - which makes it look really fat. But the huge speed difference kills the batter's timing.

For a pitcher who has perfected that pitch at 40 feet, it takes some work to get it in a groove again at 43 feet. But if your pitcher is dedicated, it will come in no time - some work over the winter and she'll be fine.

 

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Thanks for all the feedback.

Keep it coming. I hadn't even considered the batting aspect of it. This is definitely helpful.

I think that everyone should be the same.. What is the reason behind ASA not switching [yet]? Since high school, NSA, and USSSA have.. What's the reasoning behind ASA not switching?

 

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We played at the Varsity level this year for the first time since the change (DD was a fresh) and we noticed right away that the hits are much bigger. Your pitchers must have movement and spin on the ball or it will be put out of the park. You no longer can rely on placing a fastball somewhere because no matter where it is the batter will find it and drive it.

 

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I think the most important thing is to teach less experienced pitchers to keep the ball low and out of the heart of the strike zone. The primary reason that pitchers get "head shots" is from hanging fastballs right down the pipe.

Don't mean to preach here, but parents should stress more than ever to their pitcher daughters how important working the edges of the strike zone is. The pitcher has tremendous control over where the ball is hit. But many young pitchers get behind in the count, then hang one over the plate to get back in - and that's the danger. Great spin and off-speed pitches are far more important at 43'. You just effectively lost 2 - 3 mph on your fastball going from 40' to 43', so NOTHING DOWN THE MIDDLE!

 

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I think the most important thing is to teach less experienced pitchers to keep the ball low and out of the heart of the strike zone. The primary reason that pitchers get "head shots" is from hanging fastballs right down the pipe.

Don't mean to preach here, but parents should stress more than ever to their pitcher daughters how important working the edges of the strike zone is. The pitcher has tremendous control over where the ball is hit. But many young pitchers get behind in the count, then hang one over the plate to get back in - and that's the danger. Great spin and off-speed pitches are far more important at 43'. You just effectively lost 2 - 3 mph on your fastball going from 40' to 43', so NOTHING DOWN THE MIDDLE!

Sammy, good points!

I've heard people mention losing 2-3 mph going from 40 to 43 feet. Never really asked, but what is typical loss going from 35 to 40 feet? I never checked that when my DD made this change couple years ago. Just curious.

 

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Both cases are just a time-speed-distance calculation. Longer distance = more travel time. The ball isn't traveling slower, it just has farther to travel. Timing obviously changes depending on variables like stride length and ball speed.

For simplicity, let's make a few assumptions:

Your pitcher moving from 40' to 43' has a pretty consistent fastball of 55 mph. She has a decent stride, so let's use a measured ball travel to hitting zone distance of "Pitching distance minus 4 feet". (Release point 3' from pitcher's plate, and contact zone 1' in front of rear tip of home plate)

Convert and round, 55 mph = 80.667 feet per second (fps)
Using the formula: Time = Distance / Speed

43' (actual ball travel distance is 39') = 39' / 80.667 fps = .483 seconds
40' (actual ball travel distance is 36') = 36' / 80.667 fps = .446 seconds


The younger pitcher moving from 35' to 40' has an "age appropriate" 50 mph fastball. Her stride is a little shorter, so let's assume "Pitching distance minus 3 feet" for her.

Rounding, 50 mph = 73.333 feet per second (fps)
Again, using the formula: Time = Distance / Speed

40' (actual ball travel distance is 37') = 37' / 80.667 fps = .459 seconds
36' (actual ball travel distance is 33') = 33' / 80.667 fps = .409 seconds

Granted, I'm being pretty generous giving 50 mph to a kid throwing from 36'. I don't think that is typical; speed is probably more like in the upper 40's. But I think there are big gains in velocity at that age, because it's usually when the pitcher starts getting quality instruction and you see a large jump in performance.

Any way you slice it, you're still looking at between .44 seconds and .49 seconds in terms of timing from release point to hitting zone up through 14u travel ball. College typically will bring that timing down somewhat to about the .43 to .45 range for a fastball.

IMO, deceptive change of speeds is the most effective weapon for a pitcher. Do the math for the DIFFERENCE in speeds - say a 60 mph fastball followed by a 49 mph change-up; you'll see why it messes with a batter's timing. That's also my case for a college pitcher needing 60 mph to make the change-up more effective.

 

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Sammy, thanks for the detailed explanation. Makes more sense when you break it down.

 

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I've been accused of TMI on more than one occasion!

 

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I think the most important thing is to teach less experienced pitchers to keep the ball low and out of the heart of the strike zone. The primary reason that pitchers get "head shots" is from hanging fastballs right down the pipe.

Another important thing, IMHO, is to teach umpires that it is ok to call the corners and edges of the strike zone. I've seen too many basically demand pitchers put it down the middle to get a called strike. I've seen it occur especially with two strikes on the batter where the ump seems hesitant to call a third strike on the corner.

Small strike zones, IMHO, can increase the risk of "head shots".

 

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A smart and experienced catcher will start a dialog with the plate umpire from the first pitch - NEVER disagreeing, but learning with each pitch. Where (other than down the middle) should my pitcher place the ball to get a called strike? Gradually she will find exactly where that sweet spot is. Even though you may disagree with the umpire, it's when you get into a confrontational relationship is when the strike zone shrinks. This dialog is between the catcher and umpire, NOT the coach yelling from the dugout.

We've all heard it: The dad behind the backstop; the coach with forceful verbal disagreements. All that stuff just builds a case against your pitcher. Why not let your catcher handle it in a civil manner? If she's polite and business-like, your TEAM has much better odds of having that 10th player on your side. I'm not defending incompetent umpires by any stretch, but you have to deal with it, and move on.

Finally - a pitcher is NEVER forced to "throw it down the middle". What about all the other "tools"? What about varying delivery timing? Change of speeds? Step off the pitcher's plate occasionally? I RARELY see a pitcher up through 14u vary her timing. Some pitchers literally turn into a machine, and it's no wonder batters can time them up. Placement of the pitch is just one segment of being a good pitcher - learning to disrupt the batter's timing is just as important.

 

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Sammy, good points!

I've heard people mention losing 2-3 mph going from 40 to 43 feet. Never really asked, but what is typical loss going from 35 to 40 feet? I never checked that when my DD made this change couple years ago. Just curious.

We moved from 10u to 12u this year. At tryouts our girls lost 3-5 MPH across the board. But of course not only do you have the move from 35 to 40 feet but also the larger softball..That was just 1st time out and since we had just come from Nationals they really had not had a chance to work with the larger ball before tryouts.

 

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We moved from 10u to 12u this year. At tryouts our girls lost 3-5 MPH across the board. But of course not only do you have the move from 35 to 40 feet but also the larger softball..Since we had just come from Nationals they really had not had a chance to work with the larger ball before tryouts.

I went through that with my daughter (who is now moving up to 13U). The jump from 35ft to 40ft did cause a "decrease" in her speed for about a month or two until she adjusted to the bigger ball and really started snapping her wrist with the bigger ball. For her, the distance wasn't an issue because she has always been a taller kid. By November (of the year of the transition), she surpassed her top 10u speed and even added some MPH.