Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Pitching Question

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What is the proper angle of the front foot in a leap and drag style?

I've heard point at your target
I've recently heard land at a 45 degree angle

I know foot placement on or off the power line determines where the ball is going, but question is only in regards to the direction of lead toe.

Thanks,

 

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45 degree angle .

 

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45 degree angle .

Thanks Merlion

 

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45 degree. At 90 you aren't as stable and run the risk of rolling your ankle. At 0 your hips are square to the catcher. What I usually say is somewhere between 1 & 2 o'clock if you think of it as a clock face.

 

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My dd is very close to being at 90. Angle should be between 45 and 90. The more open hips and shoulders become the more of an angle.

 

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My daughter is being taught at 90 from a well known instructor, for an open hip delivery.

The thought of rolling an ankle at 90 degrees certainly sounds possible, but has yet to ever happen after 1000's of pitches. If done incorrectly (i.e. carrying the weight out over the front foot), there would be greater chance, but then one wouldn't necessarily be "leaping and dragging" properly either.

In this instance, opening the toe from the 90 degree angle causes other problems such as opening the front shoulder, twisting the torso, pulling the ball off center, etc.

I can only theorize that the right angle anchors other parts of the body for proper alignment and consistent delivery, and would tend to agree with it in practice.

 

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Rolling the ankle is not why you don't want to land at 90 degrees. Repetitive knee injury issues are. A 45 degree angle is sufficient to allow the hips to open, and the leg will be in a better position to absorb the stress of repeated and violent landings. Stopping your entire body weight over and over with your knee facing sideways is far from ok. Girls are already more prone to knee issues than boys due to the increased angle of the femur from the hip to the knee. I don't see any positives to a 90 degree landing, only potential knee issues later.

 

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My dd recently had a severe back pain while pitching in fall tournaments. Although the brutal cold temps didn't help, found that she was planting stride foot at 90 degrees putting a lot of force on her lower back. when she switched to 45 degrees she said that all off the force felt was in her leg muscles.

 

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DD has always been taught "1 o'clock" - where as the power line would be 12 o'clock and 90 degrees would be 3 o'clock.

Guess this is about the same as 45 degrees, but early in her development it was pointed out to her often that she was at "2 o'clock" instead of 1...

A younger girl that I coached had a big problem landing at 90 degrees and rolling her ankle. She is a very small girl with weak ankles. Put her in an ankle brace and immediately she started landing at 45 and ankle problems dissapeared.

 

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Be sure your pitching instructor understands the physical make-up and strength differences between men's and women's styles of pitching.

For all practical purposes, the stride in basic throwing, hitting AND pitching is more or less the same - and serves the same purpose. A strong, balanced foundation to provide resistance and stability for the rest of the body to do it's job. I'm trying to picture a 90 degree stride foot...

Baseball pitching is different, and not an equal comparison. There is little to no backward resitance against the stride leg/foot - it is more of a pivot point in baseball.

 

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Thunder's Dad is 100% correct. Every time a pitcher lands on the stride leg/foot, she places 3 to 3 and 1/2 times her body weight (measured in force) on that leg/knee. If the knee is at 90%, imagine the force that is being absorbed by that knee, in a position that it is not designed to flex in. 45% allows the entire leg to abosrb the force of the landing, and flex like a shock abosrber. The other issue to consider is that anyone landing at 90 is almost certainly completely opening her hips by over-rotating the drive foot/hip. Most pitchers who do this, cannot engage the back side throughout the motion, thus compromising posture at release. Go 2 Go 2, I've never seen your daughter pitch, but it's possible that the 45% landing helped her not over-rotate to open, allowing her to keep the backside active throughout the motion. One of the biggest issues with over-rotating and re-planting is that the pitcher ends up with a foward lean at release, putting a lot of strain and pressure on the lower back and shoulder. Not saying your DD re-plants, but check and see if her posture at release is any different with the 45% landing; ie more upright as opposed to slightly leaning forward.

 

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Bobblehead knows his stuff he's helped my dd and all pitchers on our team for three years now.

 

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Thunder's Dad is 100% correct. Every time a pitcher lands on the stride leg/foot, she places 3 to 3 and 1/2 times her body weight (measured in force) on that leg/knee. If the knee is at 90%, imagine the force that is being absorbed by that knee, in a position that it is not designed to flex in. 45% allows the entire leg to abosrb the force of the landing, and flex like a shock abosrber. The other issue to consider is that anyone landing at 90 is almost certainly completely opening her hips by over-rotating the drive foot/hip. Most pitchers who do this, cannot engage the back side throughout the motion, thus compromising posture at release. Go 2 Go 2, I've never seen your daughter pitch, but it's possible that the 45% landing helped her not over-rotate to open, allowing her to keep the backside active throughout the motion. One of the biggest issues with over-rotating and re-planting is that the pitcher ends up with a foward lean at release, putting a lot of strain and pressure on the lower back and shoulder. Not saying your DD re-plants, but check and see if her posture at release is any different with the 45% landing; ie more upright as opposed to slightly leaning forward.

Not disagreeing with what you say, but my dd lands almost at 90 with shoulders and hip open. Her coach is considered one of the best. My dd stays completely open at finish. I agree that my dd sometimes will over rotate her hips and shoulders, what we call a hook, but very rarely now. If I'm smart enough I'll post a clip to view.

 

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Not disagreeing with what you say, but my dd lands almost at 90 with shoulders and hip open. Her coach is considered one of the best. My dd stays completely open at finish. I agree that my dd sometimes will over rotate her hips and shoulders, what we call a hook, but very rarely now. If I'm smart enough I'll post a clip to view.

You're probably going to the same instructor that my daughter goes to, based on your answers.

Every time a pitcher lands on the stride leg/foot, she places 3 to 3 and 1/2 times her body weight (measured in force) on that leg/knee.

If you were doing it wrong and landed over that foot, maybe. In this case, you're still dragging your back foot, and most of your weight (in relation to center) is still towards your back side. Both legs are slightly bent at release.

Out of curiosity, for a pitcher that lands at 10 or 11:00, does she also do her wrist snaps with that front foot in the same position, or is it at 90?

 

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Out of curiosity, for a pitcher that lands at 10 or 11:00, does she also do her wrist snaps with that front foot in the same position, or is it at 90?

For my DD who's a righty and lands a 1:00 - she does her wrist snaps and half swings from that position.

Foot angle, hips, shoulders.... 1 o'clock, 1 o'clock, 1 o'clock... If all the angles are correct and her foot lands at the correct spot along the power line then her arm swing comes through naturally placing the ball on the correct corner.

 

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For my DD who's a righty and lands a 1:00 - she does her wrist snaps and half swings from that position.

Foot angle, hips, shoulders.... 1 o'clock, 1 o'clock, 1 o'clock... If all the angles are correct and her foot lands at the correct spot along the power line then her arm swing comes through naturally placing the ball on the correct corner.

Thank you for that explanation, and the body positioning in relation to the foot was what I was looking for. I meant to say 1:00, instead of 11:00, but I'm left-handed.

I've read about using the power line adjustment to spot pitches, but she's not currently being taught that way. Not saying that any method is inherently wrong, but considering options of different techniques.

 

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Not saying that any method is inherently wrong, but considering options of different techniques.

I agree. Lots of schools of thought on the mechanics of pitching. I think it's just important to find an instructor that works well with your DD and go with it.

I've been told about more than one girl who was a great pitcher at the younger levels but was ruined before they reached HS because too many different instructors tried to change this and change that. Once you find what works - stick with it and refine it! :cap:

 

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Not disagreeing with what you say, but my dd lands almost at 90 with shoulders and hip open. Her coach is considered one of the best. My dd stays completely open at finish. I agree that my dd sometimes will over rotate her hips and shoulders, what we call a hook, but very rarely now. If I'm smart enough I'll post a clip to view.

Sounds like the Radara McHugh school of pitching. DD has been with her going on three years. There's nobody better.

 

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How much drag should there be? DD leaves a heck of a rutt with her drag, almost like she is creating her own resistance and over a period of an inning or two she has dug down as much as 2 to 3" inches into the dirt. (soft fields)

 

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How much drag should there be? DD leaves a heck of a rutt with her drag, almost like she is creating her own resistance and over a period of an inning or two she has dug down as much as 2 to 3" inches into the dirt. (soft fields)

I'll take a stab at an answer and say that she only needs to keep the back foot on the ground enough to satisfy the requirement that it stays down until the ball is released. Sounds like she is leaning back quite a bit after her leap, but she may find it as a way to stabilize her body position.

I know that no matter what kind of shoes I buy her, they don't last long after all the dragging.