Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Pitching Question

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From the 1996 study of Olympic pitchers.

Pitching Performance Summary

As the stride foot touches down, the position of the throwing arm is important to pitching performance. Two of the parameters that were critical to injury prevention (shoulder extension and abduction) are also important to production of ball speed. The arm should be close to the body (in the plane) and should be near the top of the backswing as the stride foot comes into contact with the ground. If the arm is out of the windmill plane or not near the top of the backswing, ball speed will decrease. These two parameters, which indicate pitch timing and coordination, need to be optimized in the same manner for injury prevention and maximum ball speed. The angle at the knee joint is also important as the stride foot touches down. On average, the knee should be bent approximately 30 degrees short of full extension. A pitcher with a stride knee that is bent more than about 35-40 degrees will jeopardize ball speed.

In order to increase ball speed, it also appears that the angle of the stride should be in a forward direction and not too far right or left of the power line. Again, the knee angle of the stride foot and the stride placement can be optimized for performance and shoulder stress reduction in the same manner. Orientation of the stride foot also appears to be important in producing ball speed. A stride foot which is pointed toward third base (for a right-handed pitcher) at about a 10 to 30 degree angle is optimal for producing ball speed. Pitchers who tended to angle the stride foot too much (greater than 30 degrees) had slower release speeds. Another coordination factor which affects ball speed is the speed of the throwing arm as it circles through the windmill motion. At the instant of ball release, pitchers with great arm speeds tended to have lower ball velocities. Therefore, it appears that the arm circle needs to slow down prior to ball release for optimal ball speed. Two body segment contributions to ball speed also seem to be critical factors to ball velocity at the release point. The speed of the hand just prior to release should be maximal for increased ball speed. Also, those pitchers with high contributions from the elbow just prior to release tended to have lower ball speeds. Thus, proper sequencing of the segments (i.e., shoulder, then elbow, then wrist, then hand) appears to be important to pitching performance.




So somewhere between 30 and 45 would be optimal for not only throwing harder but keeping stress off the shoulder which is what this study was about. As for the question of drag it should be light as possible and should be as straight as possible.

Dana.
 
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Good post Dana. Here is a site that might help. Been to many Hillhouse and Gillis clinics and interesting how so many have different views. I read about wrist snaps on here as part of the training each day and if you have been to Hillhouse you know his opinion on them.
http://www.pitchsoftball.com/ForMoreSpeed-FinishthePitch.html

Didn't McHugh use to be with the Racers and was let go?
 
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Dana, agree whole-heartedly, including the concept of a light drag foot. The only thing I would teach differently is to have the drag foot travel in the form of a bannana shape or left parentheses mark ( for a right handed pitcher) from rubber to stride foot heel. It helps keep the hips and shoulders open at the proper angle through the pitch.
 
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Ifibuildit, that's a 1996 study with all due respect. There's a very recent article that if I find will post (at airport on mobile). They show clips of what is considered the top 12 pitchers of the world and they all had the same thing in common, despite what they teach all of them had their hips and shoulders open at release. The study went on to say that less hips was more. I'm not saying this is concrete evidence, but interesting none the less. My dd has been with Radara McHugh now for 1-1/2 years, and will say my dd has just recently truly grasped her teachings.
 
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13 years ago there was still a lot of "slam the door" teaching (fully close the hips) going on. Most advanced pitchers today do not fully close, and there is much more emphasis on the legs now than there was back then.
 
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She does the left parentheses mark and needs a new pair of shoes every 3 tournaments (foot is still growing so no Ringor's yet and yes i tried the toe cover as well), how do I instruct to keep the foot light, been trying for 3 months now and she isn't grasping it? I dont know how to upload photos on here, I have the pictures on my facebook account if anyone cares to go look. Thanks
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=105684&id=1760671211#/photo.php?pid=105668&id=1760671211
 
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Steelers, correct. The question regarded the angle of the front foot at landing, and somewhere between 30-45 is optimum. At 90, the risk of injury increases and can contribute to a less than efficient lower body. I am not advocating a "closed hip" at release, and I am certainly not a proponent of open the door, close the door. I am a big proponent of keeping the drive leg and hip engaged throughout the pitch, allows for a more efficient, healthy delivery. And you can certainly stay open and land at a a 45% angle with the stride foot.
Good original question by the way, I don't see this part of the mechanic emphasized enough.
 
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rd, get used to the crazy spend on spikes, it's part of the deal. Even with a fairly light toe drag, she's gonna wear 'em out pretty quick. Ringor with the pitcher's toe is your answer, once she stops growing. Hopefully she's wearing a hole right on the tip of the toes of the shoe, or slightly to the right of the tip (for a right-handed pitcher). If she's blowing out the side, that means she's collapsing the drag foot.
 
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Right Handed and the tear starts just left of the tip and then proceeds down the entire inside of the shoe.
 
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Thanks SB, but she does make the drag mark going behind her plant foot and back around for about 12" from point of the rubber. However she digs so hard and deep it looks to me like it takes away from momentum which in turn is decreasing speed. How do I get her to do it ever so lightly and not drag so hard, as she has been pitching for 4 years now?
 
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You are right it will take away from her power. I will ask, since we have the other problem.
 
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Shock,

It may be old but does that make it any less valid today than it was back then? To my knowledge no other study of any magnitude has been done since then. I was not talking about hip angle in my post. I was talking in terms of the statement below.

From the 1996 study of Olympic pitchers.

A stride foot which is pointed toward third base (for a right-handed pitcher) at about a 10 to 30 degree angle is optimal for producing ball speed. Pitchers who tended to angle the stride foot too much (greater than 30 degrees) had slower release speeds.

Since the post was about the stride foot and how much it should be open I just offered up this information as a reference to what they found. The original study was to define the mechanics that would put the least amout of strain on the pitching shoulder. Had nothing at all to do with the hips or the stride foot. These were the observations of the team as it relates to their study of those ladys who were supposed to be the best in the world at that time.

Look forward to your post on the information you mentioned.

Dana.
 
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RD,

I would like to take credit for this but Bill Hillhouse told me about this one. He puts a piece of writing paper in front of the pitching plate and tells his student that they are to drag the paper with their toe and not put a hole in it with their toe. If they drag too hard its going to put a hole in it.

Kind of like the walk on Rice paper test of the Kung Foo masters.

Have not tried this on one of mine yet but my guess is its going to drive my students crazy when I do give it a try.

Carry on Grasshopper. :)

Dana.
 
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Since we've strayed a little from the original topic... in regards to "slamming the door" ... I was told that it's no longer a preferred method, due to a change in a girls flexibility as they get older. i.e. it's fine for a 10-12 year old, but more difficult and restrictive once they hit about 15-16 years old.

Any thoughts?
 
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IFIBUILDIT, I'm currently in Chicago but will post info or send via pm when I return. On the foot drag, my dd used to dig trenches with her drag foot, actually slow all her momentum down. I actually had a couple well known teachers tell my dd to drag less toe, but how? They couldn't answer that. We discovered her stride was too far and she did not have the leg strength to drive the back side to a finish. By shortening her stride by a couple inches she was able to finish much stronger. The overall result was better timing and increase of speed. Look forward to sharing more info with you.
 
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If you were doing it wrong and landed over that foot, maybe. In this case, you're still dragging your back foot, and most of your weight (in relation to center) is still towards your back side. Both legs are slightly bent at release.

Out of curiosity, for a pitcher that lands at 10 or 11:00, does she also do her wrist snaps with that front foot in the same position, or is it at 90?

Incorrect sir. The back foot is just touching the ground enough to satisfy a rule requirement. It is not doing anything in relation to stopping the forward momentum of a pitcher's stride. The front foot, aka the "plant" foot is stopping the entire weight of the pitcher times the velocity of her stride. This is not something I made up here at the keyboard, its the laws of physics. If you don't like it, take it up with Newton.:lmao:

My dd does all her warm ups from a position that is simmilar to the position she is in at release. Snaps, wings, K's, circles, etc...
 

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