Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Pitching Styles

[default]

I'm sure some of us that watched Finch give lessons in Cincy last year can post on here what her arm actually does. It was interesting to watch her live, give lessons. I just had to keep hitter23 out of my view! He just had to be up front.

 

[default]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_de3HJvO-N8&feature=PlayList&p=5987F5E4025A0396&index=0&playnext=1
-motion capture at 5:55 shows the arm finishing high in the right side of the body
_____________________
Not sure what you are looking at , but finches arm never gets left of her right cheek. her arm goes basically straight up.

http://www.viddler.com/explore/softball/videos/124/ At 600 minutes he gives his reason why all sports finish across the body. He mentions hitting a volleyball, throwing over hand, etc. A big difference between throwing over hand and underhand is the rotator cuff comes into play overhand, not so much underhand. It is natural to finish across the body overhand, because of the way the cuff operates. The cuff in no way operates that way while circling. Proof of this in the way Finch and others pitch.
Hillhouse has his opinion, and it is good marketing when he tells people his way is the only way to be successful. But obviously it is not the only way.

 

[default]

Do bowlers finish with their hand going up to the left or straight up?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4X6-Rsh8qjM

Straight up because the movement is underhand, and they want to ball to go straight

Same with horseshoes, and badmitten on under hand serves. Finish straight up. Doesnt really matter if the arm speed is fast or slow the shoulder is designed to handle deceleration straight up as well as across. It is nothing more than personal preference.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[default]

To compare softball pitching to bowling is laughable. Bowlers are not tryiing to throw the ball 60mph. It's not an apples to apples comparison. He once said it to me and I laughed it off but now I can see it pretty clearly: many people take part of what is said and throw away the other part or context.

 

[default]

If you look at the video closely the angle of her shoulders after release are not facing the catcher which when you watch her instruction video she is shows to be the proper way. Since the angle of her shoulders in relation to her arm are such even if her arm appears to go straight up technically is it not going somewhat across her body? Even when she brings her arm back down her shoulders are still facing at an angle to the catcher.

 

[default]

To compare softball pitching to bowling is laughable. Bowlers are not tryiing to throw the ball 60mph. It's not an apples to apples comparison. He once said it to me and I laughed it off but now I can see it pretty clearly: many people take part of what is said and throw away the other part or context.

The shoulder of a bowler probably takes more abuse than a pitcher. He is throwing a 16 pound ball @ 17 miles per hour. It is very relevant. One is pulling up fast, one is pulling up hard. Similar stress to the shoulder.
In injuries of over use, the pitcher and bowler suffer from the same muscle groups.

 

[default]

If you look at the video closely the angle of her shoulders after release are not facing the catcher which when you watch her instruction video she is shows to be the proper way. Since the angle of her shoulders in relation to her arm are such even if her arm appears to go straight up technically is it not going somewhat across her body? Even when she brings her arm back down her shoulders are still facing at an angle to the catcher.

Maybe in a couple pitches. Start watching at the 1 minute mark, she throws several pitches in games where she is square and the follow thru is straight up.

 

[default]

I watched the video of sports science of Finch with my 2 DD 1 is 14 the other 11 both pitchers. They both noticed how her hips do drive through the ball and her arm bends at her waist towards the target, somtimes high ,sometimes waist high. What we seen her thumb is at the 1 oclock position waist high or at shoulder high. The release is what my DD coaches does teach but he likes it at waist high. I do love how her hips and leg drive through the ball . This video taught my DD,s the visual of how important leg drive is. They both have been reading all the threads and watchiong the video,s. This thread has been very helpful to them to understand the pitching mechanics in all the styles, mechanics are the same , its the follow through that is differnce. We need to figure out the safest one.

 

[default]

I watched the video of sports science of Finch with my 2 DD 1 is 14 the other 11 both pitchers. They both noticed how her hips do drive through the ball and her arm bends at her waist towards the target, somtimes high ,sometimes waist high. What we seen her thumb is at the 1 oclock position waist high or at shoulder high. The release is what my DD coaches does teach but he likes it at waist high. I do love how her hips and leg drive through the ball . This video taught my DD,s the visual of how important leg drive is. They both have been reading all the threads and watchiong the video,s. This thread has been very helpful to them to understand the pitching mechanics in all the styles, mechanics are the same , its the follow through that is differnce. We need to figure out the safest one.

They all can be safe if done properly. Michelle Smith stops her hand at her hip and has been doing it "wrong" for 25 or more years. There is no one way.
One of the things I totally agree with Hillhouse is to hide the ball for as long as possible. But can I argue with Cat and Finch who show the ball early in the bottom of their wind up?
For them it probably doesnt matter much because of how good they are with location and speed with movement.

Watch Cat in this video. . She is different from Finch, but they both are considered two of the best ever. For someone to say there is only one way to get it done, is very misleading.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=1489734

 

[default]

They all can be safe if done properly. Michelle Smith stops her hand at her hip and has been doing it "wrong" for 25 or more years. There is no one way.
One of the things I totally agree with Hillhouse is to hide the ball for as long as possible. But can I argue with Cat and Finch who show the ball early in the bottom of their wind up?
For them it probably doesnt matter much because of how good they are with location and speed with movement.

Watch Cat in this video. . She is different from Finch, but they both are considered two of the best ever. For someone to say there is only one way to get it done, is very misleading.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=1489734

Wow punch, Cat throws a lot of curve ball in that Vid too, according to Hillhouse, that is not good. You can't throw a pitch that stays on the same plane. Her follow through is not very good either. Just think how good cat could have been had she not had that curve and her follow through was the "Hillhouse Way".....Cat would have been a lot better......

 

[default]

You cant throw a pitch that stays on the same plane.......IF thats all you throw. Especially at the higher levels. 10u and 55mph....absolutely.

Last time I checked...Cat has plenty of weapons

Boy, this became a runaway train...REALLY fast

As long as it works and nobody hurts....

10u and 55mph?? must be on daddys radar gun.

 

[default]

;0)

 

[default]

fpitchdad. Sounds like all the plus 60 mph that we were going to see at KSU- Q showcase? There might be a 10U throwing at that speed , but it would be very rare. There is a study that has been posting on OFC a few times. It was done in Ca.Tx, & Az, where kids pitch all year round. The aveage speed for a 11 year old was in the mid 40's. So we are not questioning your post, but many of us have heard of kids throwing this fast, but like KSU few hit the speed they had posted.

 

[default]

fpitchdad. Sounds like all the plus 60 mph that we were going to see at KSU- Q showcase?

Yea, those were great guns up there. Saw a girl that I thought was really bringing it hitting 53 mph at best. Saw another girl hit 52 then the gun said 77 on the next pitch.......the gun may have been clocking a couple of the girls running speed from first to second......there were some quick ones. SB, I am sure there are some 10u's that can throw hard but come on. Being I live with a pitcher, and have owned a couple radar guns my take is this.....If you are not clocking with a Jugs gun, and the pitch is not directly at it, you are looking at usually plus or minus 3 to 5 mph (its usually the minus 3 to 5). The Jugs is accurate within .5 either way. I have 2 tuning forks with my Jugs gun and I have used those forks on 3 different bushnells.....my 61 mph fork was reading 64-65 on all the bushnells......sorry dads those 55mph on the bushnells....really are probably 50-51.

SB I too have heard of young kids throwing that fast but have never ever seen it.

 

[default]

http://www.pitchsoftball.com/Page8.html It goes into detail and supports what fpitchdad posted about guns. That is funny about the running speeds. I knew my dd was fast a few years back when Larry Caton, during Sting Ray tryouts just shock his head, while looking at his watch.

 

[default]

SB, Kasey Kelly from Wooster could flat out bring it when she was 13-14. Guess that's why she is at Ohio State now.

 

[default]

SB, Kasey Kelly from Wooster could flat out bring it when she was 13-14. Guess that's why she is at Ohio State now.

Yes she did . was definatly a power pitcher at that age... but on the other side of that, she was seeing the same teams over and over every weekend. Her and others like her, Rubright, Kendrick, Fisherback, the true 60 plus pitchers in Ohio made kids better hitters. And frustrated the ones that diddnt get better. Those years were fun to watch,

 

[default]

I know we faced her twice a year in the OCC for the past 3 years. The Lasers were tough with her on the mound in travel ball. . Who do you think she set the record for most K's in an extra inning high school game against. I watched the entire marathon and it was a great battle to watch. What is funny is Holly ( our pitcher) was faster in terms of the so called gun. She is also in the record book with K's in that game. Holly is pitching for Taylor U now. Kasey left early to OSU. She would have been the dominate pitcher this year as a senior in high school. The kid that beat her with the HR was one that I'm a little proud of. She hit a HR in her first high school game last year and lead our team. Now as a JR. she will be a tough out. I made sure her dad got the ball. I have 6 this year that can pound it out. .

 

[default]

I noticed the pot was starting to slow down in RPM, gonna give it another swirl!

I think it's comical that people in the Hillhouse camp will take any evidence to the contrary of his teachings and skew it to whatever the man has preached as though it was the word of God himself. If Jennie Finch's fingertips drift any where toward the mid-line of her body, people are shouting "See!!! it is as he spake upon the mountain on high!! Her intention was to follow the word of the Bill, but we all fall short, and we shall therefore buy another HouseOfPitching DVD!!" or if Jennie Finch teaches anything about the "hello elbow" finishing up instead of across the body, the minions chant "She knows not what she teaches, this lost soul is a heretic, and shall be cast into the pit with the rest of the Philistines!" Oh, looky guys, they are serving Kool-aid at the main tent, looks yummy!

( For the record: I think he is knowledgeable and his record speaks for itself as to his personal accomplishments. I agree with 90% of what he says regarding pitching mechanics.) He is however, unapologetically singular in his teachings about where the hand should finish, and that there is no reason to throw curves or screwballs, even though there is a ton of evidence that those are personal decisions, not absolutes.

Here is another lost soul teaching the art of the uppercut. He is actually showing boxings most powerful knockout punch traveling straight up...the nerve! I realize that some of you are pouring zippo lighter fluid on the stake already for me, but I am not afraid!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41HT...503314403&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=8

 

[default]

Oh, looky guys, they are serving Kool-aid at the main tent, looks yummy!

Now that's funny! :lmao: