Quick rules question

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Friday at 8th grade game the opposing pitcher was not starting with both feet on rubber, left foot was behind. Our coach questioned it to plate ump. Plate ump then conferred with field ump and then conferred with opposing coach. The plate ump came to talk to our coach and I heard ump's exact words to be "well I am not getting in the middle of this". Afterwards the pitcher did start with both feet on the rubber but then when presenting the ball stepped backwards with her left foot then forward. Would like a clarification on the rule. Also thought the umps words were odd considering that is his job! Either it is against the rules or it isn't! By the way, both umps were wearing OHSAA ball caps.
Thanks.

 

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Yes the high school rules allows pitchers to step backwards off the pitching rubber. And they only need to have the pivot foot on the rubber as well.

 

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NFHS Rule 6-1-1............ the pivot on or partially on the top surface of the pitcher's plate and the non-pivot foot in contact or behind the pitcher's plate.



FASTPITCH! Anything else, And you're playing to SLOW!

 

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To the coach that complained: Read your rule book before complaining about a perfectly legal pitching motion!

To the umpires: You should know the pitching rules for any game you're officiating and should be able to communicate said rules to a coach in few brief sentences if questioned about them!

 

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This is one of those rules that causes a lot of confusion. In high school ball, most kids who use the (perfectly legal) "step back" really gain no advantage at all. The idea was that it provided more momentum, but the problem is - most kids have no idea (or have not been taught) how to use that momentum to their advantage.

I know ASA requires both feet to be in contact with the plate, as does nearly every other sanctioning body up through college and pro. High school seems to be the lone straggler in women's fastpitch (correct me if I'm wrong, Bret). IMO, the high school rules committee would be doing everyone a favor by eliminating the step-back, and joining the rest of the "both feet on the plate" party.

 

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USSSA and Little League follow the same pitching rule as high school and allow the step back. ASA, NSA and NCAA all require both feet on the plate. I suppose you might find some others that allow the step back, what with the dozens of sanctioning bodies out there.

While most regard high school as being the "odd man out" with this rule, in a roundabout way the organizations that prohibit the step back are the oddballs!

If you go back twenty-plus years, they ALL allowed the step back. With the perception that the game was becoming too pitching dominated, ASA was the first to change their rule and require both feet on the rubber.

Over the years, as new organizations sprung up, they copied one rule set or the other. So now we have a mish-mash of rules where some associations allow it and others don't.

But the "high school way" is actually the way the rule had always been enforced. The "ASA way" was originally "the odd man out" and the exception to the rule!

 

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Thanks Bret. The only time DD was exposed to that rule was high school - thus my tunnel vision. She played a little N$A, then mostly ASA before NCAA. She was taught from the beginning to have both feet on, because ultimately that was going to have to be the rules she would have to play by. But that was just our little world...

 

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How much of the back foot has to be in contact? I usually see just the toe on the back edge by a lot of pitchers. Our HS pitcher has been told by an ump that she has to have at least a toe on top.

 

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in HS the back foot does not need to be IN CONTACT WITH the rubber just behind the rubber..

 

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If by "back foot" you mean the pivot foot (ie: right foot on a right-handed pitcher, vise versa for a lefty), the high school rule is that it must be "on, or partially on, the top surface of the pitcher's plate".

ANY portion of the pivot foot touching the top portion of the PP is legal. It doesn't have to be a toe. Could be the middle of the foot or could be the heel- even 1/8" inch of the heel.

 

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when talking Backfoot i think of the stride foot, as it is the back foot while they are standing on the rubber. Which is what I think she is thinking to as she talks about the toe touching the back of the rubber

 

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That's what it sounded like to me as well.

 

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As for the back step in HS, that can only happen prior to pitching. Back stepping while the hands come together and are in motion to pitch is an illegal pitch.

NFHS 6-1-Art.2b Once the hands are brought together and are in motion, the pitcher shall not take more than one step which must be foward, towards the batter and simultaneous with the delivery. Any back step shall begin before the hands come toghter. The step backwards may end before or after the hands come togther.


NFHS 6.1.1 pivot foot on or partially on top surface of the pitcher’s plate; non-pivot foot in contact with or behind pitcher’s plate, both feet must be within the 24 inch width of the pitcher’s plate

NCAA 10.2.1 both feet in contact with portion of pitcher’s plate within the 24 inch width of the pitcher’s plate

USSSA 6.1.A Pivot foot on or partially on the surface of the pitcher’s plate (rubber); non pivot in contact or behind.

ASA 6.1.A.2 both feet in contact with pitcher’s plate within the 24 inch width of the pitcher’s plate

FASTPITCH! Anything else, And you're playing to SLOW!

 

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Quick answer - In HS it is OK to start with both feet on the mound and then step back. In ASA summer or college - nope. If a pitcher does this she is nuts. May be legal but nuts to learn or teach. You will never see any top pitcher do this.

 

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when talking Backfoot i think of the stride foot...

Could be. I usually call them the "pivot foot" and the "non-pivot foot" (or "stride foot").

What confuses me is why an umpire would tell ~*{Mom}*~ that the non-pivot/stride foot had to be contacting the rubber in high school play.

If the umpire was right, then they had to be talking about the pivot foot.

If he was wrong, then they had to be talking about the non-pivot foot.

 

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RH pitcher: I most often see the pivot (right foot) on top of the plate, with the ball of the foot just past the front edge of the plate. This is for two reasons: First, it satisfies the rules "Pivot foot on top of the pitcher's plate..."; Second, this allows a push off from the front edge of the pitcher's plate. Most pitchers dig out a trench just in front of the plate to provide an edge to push from.

The stride foot (left foot) toe is usually contacting the back edge of the pitchers plate - you'll see a slight bend in the left knee when they are "up on their toe". The rules simply state that the "non-pivot" foot must be IN CONTACT with (or behind for HS) the plate. I don't see anything about the contact point must be ON TOP of the plate. In nearly 10 years of pitching, DD has never been called for a foot infraction.

 

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The pitcher is a righty so I guess she got called for her stride foot? She does dig a trench, but this ump said her back foot had to have at least a toe on top. Then again,...he was a very "picky" ump. Warning everyone about what ever he thought was "important". Called a safe on first base because my DD,(1st), didn't have her foot on top of the bag. She was practically doing the splits for a bad throw, (she had the ball in plenty of time though). The field was very soft and my DD needed the side of the bag so she didn't fall on her butt. Ahhhh...HS ball...I guess he felt it was necessary to "teach" everyone.

 

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Bag is the bag... no matter where you touch it.

Good first baseperson is taught to straddle the bag on the inside of the field part of the bag and make the commitment of which foot goes to the bag based on the throw from the infielder.

I see way too many first base persons making a commitment with one foot or another BEFORE the ball is thrown by the infielder. Terrible coaching and mechanics.

 

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The rules simply state that the "non-pivot" foot must be IN CONTACT with (or behind for HS) the plate. I don't see anything about the contact point must be ON TOP of the plate.

Now that MOM has clarified which foot she meant...

For high school, the rules do state that the pivot foot must contact the top surface of the plate. Other rule sets- for instance, ASA- don't have that requirement. They allow the feet to contact any portion of the plate- could be butted up against the vertical sides or on the top.

But, since MOM was asking about the stride foot, the above requirement is moot. You are right, Sammy- high school rules do not require the stride/non-pivot foot to contact with any specific portion of the plate.

In fact, they don't require it to be touching the plate at all! So what the umpire told MOM's kid was absolutely false.

He was just as wrong about needing to touch the top of first base to tag it. All the bases are treated as three-dimensional objects and touching the side of a base is just as valid as touching the top. This even applies to home plate, where touching the black beveled edge is interpreted as touching the side of the plate.

I have found that the pickier umpires, who need to interject themselves with unessessary warnings or are quick to flaunt their "knowledge" of arcane technical aspects of questionable rule violations, are usually covering up for a lack of their understanding of the rules. This umpire seems to have blown it on at least two such points. Kind of makes you wonder what other basic rules he doesn't have a good grasp on.

 

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By the way, both umps were wearing OHSAA ball caps.
Thanks.

We watched a game on the 9th, my DD was in Florida playing so the DW and I spent our date night watching her summer ball teammates play! The plate ump (wearing a cap with OHSAA emblazoned) told the pitcher she could not bring her hands together...called 5+ illegal pitches on her. By the end of the game she had completely changed her pitching style, she would stand behind the pitching plate, get the sign, then step on the plate with her left foot, arms separated then stride with her right over the plate and release the ball (she was a lefty). She was just learning to pitch and that umpire completely turned her legal pitching style to illegal for the next game. Talk about frustrating and I had nothing vested in that game!