Hitting and Hitters Discussion Reverse Hand Swing

[straightleg]

Have a player that has poor extension. A player that has a circular swing. A player that slaps there back in the swing.
This drill is a lead arm swing. It can help with one or all of these things
This swing was when Casey was a sophomore in high school. She is currently a junior/senior in college.
She is also a Howard Carrier/Dad student....

Bustos is swinging with 2 hands, Casey with one, lead arm. Mechanics should stay the same.


http://youtu.be/-A2tuXwB3u8



Straightleg

 

[ApogeeDemon]

Bustos is transferring her weight into the hit. I don't see Casey really transferring weight into the swing. Casey is loading but not transferring enough. Look at Bustos back foot. It is tilted forward because she is moving that power forward into her swing. Casey's doesn't do that. Also, watch Bustos belly button, you'll see how it moves forward into the hit. Casey's only moves a little. A think Casey has great contact and extension. I would get her to transfer her power from her load more into the pitch and I'll bet her power numbers go up.
Also, she shouldn't be firing her hips in front of her hands. That's creating a bad habit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjaOLpyG968 Watch the 2 MLB players, their hips work with the hands, they don't run way in front of their hands. Again, her power numbers could soar with a couple adjustments. Thanks for sharing!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_7BlQX_M2c

 

[straightleg]

Bustos is transferring her weight into the hit. I don't see Casey really transferring weight into the swing. Casey is loading but not transferring enough. Look at Bustos back foot. It is tilted forward because she is moving that power forward into her swing. Casey's doesn't do that. Also, watch Bustos belly button, you'll see how it moves forward into the hit. Casey's only moves a little. A think Casey has great contact and extension. I would get her to transfer her power from her load more into the pitch and I'll bet her power numbers go up.
Also, she shouldn't be firing her hips in front of her hands. That's creating a bad habit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjaOLpyG968 Watch the 2 MLB players, their hips work with the hands, they don't run way in front of their hands. Again, her power numbers could soar with a couple adjustments. Thanks for sharing!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_7BlQX_M2c

This statement here makes me think you don't work with hitters, and don't have a real grasp yet on how a good swing works.

SL

 

[ApogeeDemon]

This statement here makes me think you don't work with hitters, and don't have a real grasp yet on how a good swing works.

SL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjaOLpyG968 And this video PROVES you have no idea what youre doing. Elvis move? Oh ya, lets throw our hips way in front of our hands. That'll work for sure. LOL What college does she play for? I'd like to see her power numbers.

show me anywhere in this video of MLB players where they throw their hips in front of their swings. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_7BlQX_M2c I'll make it easy for you--you can't.

 

[ApogeeDemon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zugi9JJsg2A

 

[ApogeeDemon]

"Hips start going with the hands" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw8-9kuene8

How many video's till you admit youre wrong?

 

[ApogeeDemon]

just in case you say, well that's MLB--here is Jenny Finch. Again, hands moving with hips. Oh, and her coach was who? Candrea. I guess he didn't know how to teach hitting either. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozxrwJ1OBig

 

[Lenski65]

Apogee

In every case you showed, the hips begin to open (read start) before the hands moved forward. The hips begin to open between the time the front foot toe hits the ground and the heel of the front foot hits the ground. The hands do not start forward until after the heel of the front foot hits the ground. The video of Trout and McCutchen start essentially at heel plant....their hips have already started. Here's a better video to watch:

[video=youtube;h1mx1zf_Lbs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1mx1zf_Lbs[/video]

 

[ApogeeDemon]

In that video---the hands are working with hips. The hips are not fired way out in front of the hands. The "Elvis" is just teaching bad habits. Why on Earth would you want your hitters throwing their hips way in front of their hands?

It's simply not true Lenski. Between toe touch and heel plant, yes the hip starts to move but so do the hands. Watch it a thousand times. Yes, the swing starts from the ground up but the hands move with the hip. The "Elvis" move simply doesn't happen with elite players. If you want your players to lose power, sure, teach them to all look like Elvis! lol You have visual evidence in front of you but still deny it's happening. I guess some people are so set in their ways, they won't allow themselves to say they might actually be wrong.

 

[Lenski65]

In that video---the hands are working with hips. The hips are not fired way out in front of the hands. The "Elvis" is just teaching bad habits. Why on Earth would you want your hitters throwing their hips way in front of their hands?

It's simply not true Lenski. Between toe touch and heel plant, yes the hip starts to move but so do the hands. Watch it a thousand times. Yes, the swing starts from the ground up but the hands move with the hip. The "Elvis" move simply doesn't happen with elite players. If you want your players to lose power, sure, teach them to all look like Elvis! lol You have visual evidence in front of you but still deny it's happening. I guess some people are so set in their ways, they won't allow themselves to say they might actually be wrong.

When Cabrera's toe touches and goes to heel plant his hands are not going forward. They don't go forward until heel plant occurrs. I've watched it many times between the 5 and 8 second mark. What I said is true. You are the one in denial. Double click the play button quickly to see the progression through the 5 and 8 second mark. Also, the Elvis Move is meant to teach a feel....nothing more. It teaches you to stretch your oblique and spine rotator muscles so they can fire, which increases power not decreases power. I'm sure your dd has done drills that create a feel, something like swinging down at a ball on a tee, or feet at 45 to 90 degrees open while hitting a ball on a tee.

Len

 

[ApogeeDemon]

I'm not seeing it. At "6" his hips are actually closed. At "6-8" he is getting to toe touch and heel plant. At 9 he starts his hip rotation but his hands are traveling with his hips, not behind them. Let's see if SL will post stats. If she has great power stats, I'll be impressed!

 

[Lenski65]

All you need to do is look at the pinstripe of his front leg just under his belt. If you can't see what's happening then you never will.

 

[BouldersDad]

That's why video is so deceiving. Its all in the eye of the beholder. 10 people can watch a video and see 10 different things. The hips in a swing have to lead the hands. They start very close together but the hips still lead. If not then the hands control the swing and the hands get to the ball first you will hit around or pull the ball. And a dead pull hitter is easy to pitch to. You want to strive to drive the inside of the ball that cannot be accomplished with a hands first swing.

 

[ApogeeDemon]

That's why video is so deceiving. Its all in the eye of the beholder. 10 people can watch a video and see 10 different things. The hips in a swing have to lead the hands. They start very close together but the hips still lead. If not then the hands control the swing and the hands get to the ball first you will hit around or pull the ball. And a dead pull hitter is easy to pitch to. You want to strive to drive the inside of the ball that cannot be accomplished with a hands first swing.

I agree. The swing starts from the ground up. The hip will start with the hands very close as you stated. Its a fraction of time. What the "Elvis" move is teaching to lunge your hips way in front of your hands. In the video, SL even talks about how the hands are still back after the Elvis move. That's simply wrong. I don't think he will post stats. If I was betting, I guess she is a strong hitter but lacks power. Just my opinion.

 

[ificanbelikeu]

isn't the post really about a drill focusing on the full extension from the front arm? Elvis move or no Elvis move isn't really the topic of the OP.

 

[manitoudan]

Could be just small difference in your two guys disagreement -- both seem to agree the hips head to lead the hands . The question is how far ahead should the hips be ? Or in more technical terms how rotational should a hitter be ? If the lower body doesn't torque then the hitter is a more linear than rotational hitter. Right ? In my years of tinkering with hitting and young hitters the problem is never over rotation or hips firing too soon, the problem is no connection between the lower body and upper body.or no hips at all . id day just let the hips lead the hands , of course they must work together , but if the lower body doesn't torque first you are not getting any power out of the hips ? Agree ?

 

[ApogeeDemon]

Could be just small difference in your two guys disagreement -- both seem to agree the hips head to lead the hands . The question is how far ahead should the hips be ? Or in more technical terms how rotational should a hitter be ? If the lower body doesn't torque then the hitter is a more linear than rotational hitter. Right ? In my years of tinkering with hitting and young hitters the problem is never over rotation or hips firing too soon, the problem is no connection between the lower body and upper body.or no hips at all . id day just let the hips lead the hands , of course they must work together , but if the lower body doesn't torque first you are not getting any power out of the hips ? Agree ?

That's basically what I said. I would measure that there is just a fraction of time from that initial hip rotation and the hands firing. In every slow mo video, you can see this. In the drill "Elvis" the hips are firing way in front of the hands. In the video after the hips are fired, the man in the video even mentions that the hands are still back. That would create what you mentioned, a disconnect between the upper and lower body. I would guess that a girl that swings like that is more of a slapper than a true hitter. That's why I asked to see stats. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. No big deal. I just can't see someone truly driving power shots with a disconnect from lower and upper body parts.

 

[manitoudan]

So how far do the hips need to be rotated ? Slightly ahead of the hands is what I'd say . Certainly not simultaneously . In instructing young players ( 10-12 ) I think it's safe to have them really open up those hips esrly , because most of them have never felt the power that is generated from torquing the core of the body like that . Very rare to see any player whose trouble is opening the hips too soon as opposed to not at all . Agreed ?

 

[SMc4SMc]

Correlation of opening the hips and rotating them properly to prevent always pulling the ball?

 

[ApogeeDemon]

I wouldn't teach young hitters to open up early. That's just creating a problem you'll have to fix down the road. The hands work with the hips. You can see this in any of the videos. Still haven't seen any stats so I'm assuming the power numbers aren't there.