Hitting and Hitters Discussion Reverse Hand Swing

BouldersDad

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If you think hitting is bad, Stay as far away from the pitching threads as you can - there are factions over there that will burn you as a heretic soon as look at you.

I have read thru some of those threads. Im thankful Im only involved in hitting I have seen people that are involved in both. Pretty insane. But the hitting crowd there likes their fires also. Especially if you dont agree to what ever is popular this week with the cyber instructors. Thats why I read 10 times as much as I post. Just not worth the spit slinging.
 

crystlemc

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That place has become quite the cannibalistic paradise. I quit posting in the pitching forum when it became evident that, unless you agree with BM 100%, you are a blasphemer and will be subsequently stoned.
 

ApogeeDemon

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Isnt Jerry Springer from Ohio?
ps-still waiting to see these "power" numbers SL. What college does she attend?
 
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tjsmize3

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Guys I by no means consider myself a "hitting expert." I still play baseball 2 x per week and have been involved with girls fastpitch softball either through my daughters or as a coach for over 10 years now. I certainly have no special training or credentials as a "hitting instructor." So when I have questions I rely on guys like Howard, Tim Duncan (or Micaela Minner for my team) to answer them as they (in my opinion) are proven experts at what they teach. However, I don't think you have to be an expert to realize that the hips MUST fire first if you are to use them to generate power in a baseball/softball swing. Although this is only my opinion, I would also say that the amount of time between the hips firing and hands moving is not that critical as long as your swing meets 2 criteria: 1) the back hip has fired and is at maximum torque when contact is made, and 2) the back elbow is properly "connected" to the hip at the point of contact. Likewise, if you look at most great hitters you also notice that as they make contact the back foot is plantar-flexing and moving forward. In looking at that video of a 10th grade softball player vs. the best softball hitter in the world (or one of them) I think I can see what AD is saying... I think??? It looks to me like the 10th grader's back hip is not at optimal torque when she makes contact and the fact that it looks like her back foot is actually moving slightly backwards when she is at contact might also indicate that. I'm not sure I agree with AD that it is a weight transfer issue, just more the small difference between the best hitter in the world and a 10th grader in putting all of that together optimally at the point of contact. If this were my player I would focus on trying to help her in that phase of her swing. Just wondering if anyone else saw that and agrees/disagrees with that assessment?
 

ApogeeDemon

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_DxMRXQ7SQ

Hips are way too far in front of her hands. Just compare this to ANY of the slo mo swing analysis videos Ive posted. OK, I'll put the money on the table. We all respect Bouldersdad. I think he has the best stuff. Lets see what HE thinks about this video. Whether or not the hips are too much in front of the hands. Now I'm sure you all know each other and don't want to take sides. I could care less about drawing lines in the sand. I'm just really curious what he has to say about it. I certainly DON"T see Brittany doing that in her swing. Now I just have to reason that since all stats can be accessed through a college website, and SL won't tell us which college, that the power numbers just aren't there, just as I suspected all along. I could be wrong. I'm not immune to being wrong, but if I was betting.......and please no more, well Crystl this or Cryst that. I think Howard even admits that he DIDNT teach her how to hit, that was done by her Dad and improved through Candrea if I recall. Ok, I'll be waiting to see if Bouldersdad responds. I don't want to put him on the sport, but I do respect his opinions on hitting.

especially watch the front view. Her hands are so far behind her. Looks like a slap hitter,
 

straightleg

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Guys I by no means consider myself a "hitting expert." I still play baseball 2 x per week and have been involved with girls fastpitch softball either through my daughters or as a coach for over 10 years now. I certainly have no special training or credentials as a "hitting instructor." So when I have questions I rely on guys like Howard, Tim Duncan (or Micaela Minner for my team) to answer them as they (in my opinion) are proven experts at what they teach. However, I don't think you have to be an expert to realize that the hips MUST fire first if you are to use them to generate power in a baseball/softball swing. Although this is only my opinion, I would also say that the amount of time between the hips firing and hands moving is not that critical as long as your swing meets 2 criteria: 1) the back hip has fired and is at maximum torque when contact is made, and 2) the back elbow is properly "connected" to the hip at the point of contact. Likewise, if you look at most great hitters you also notice that as they make contact the back foot is plantar-flexing and moving forward. In looking at that video of a 10th grade softball player vs. the best softball hitter in the world (or one of them) I think I can see what AD is saying... I think??? It looks to me like the 10th grader's back hip is not at optimal torque when she makes contact and the fact that it looks like her back foot is actually moving slightly backwards when she is at contact might also indicate that. I'm not sure I agree with AD that it is a weight transfer issue, just more the small difference between the best hitter in the world and a 10th grader in putting all of that together optimally at the point of contact. If this were my player I would focus on trying to help her in that phase of her swing. Just wondering if anyone else saw that and agrees/disagrees with that assessment?



One thing to consider in the video is the 10th grader is swinging with one arm, lead arm. Pulling with the front side more.
When you put both hands on the bat, you will get more torque with help from the back side.

This drill is posted for girls that short arm it, back slap, and don't use the lead arm properly.



SL
 

tjsmize3

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One thing to consider in the video is the 10th grader is swinging with one arm, lead arm. Pulling with the front side more.
When you put both hands on the bat, you will get more torque with help from the back side.

This drill is posted for girls that short arm it, back slap, and don't use the lead arm properly.



SL

Agreed!... but then why the argument with AD when he is clearly assessing and commenting on your daughter's ACTUAL swing and game production from video of her only doing drills??? It's pretty obvious your daughter is a very good hitter...
 
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BouldersDad

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I think to much is being made of an instructional video. This isn't a swing vid. Its a drill vid. And the drill its self isn't about the hips its about where to make contact. I have kids do a kick drill in no way would they swing like that in a real game. Just as she does not swing this way in a real game. If she did then yes I would say we would have an issue but having coached her when she first started college recruiting she did not swing that way then and I saw her last summer in Columbus playing 23U and she did not swing that way then either. So please do not confuse a drill vid to a swing vid. I ran into this same issue once on DFP and it was a real $hit storm.

Something else to consider is that if this vid was taken when she was a sophomore its about 6 years old and at that time she was still learning the sequence we all used. Over exaggeration comes hand in hand with learning, experimenting and honing a skill thru drills.

I think we all agree the role the hips and hands play and the sequence they fall in. Hips lead hands. Only enough to get a head start then they all meet at the ball at contact driving and pulling the back side thru contact. Or as my football coach always said .... Hit that like your A$$ weighs 5 pounds less than a half ton of coal
 

Hitter

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_DxMRXQ7SQ

Hips are way too far in front of her hands. Just compare this to ANY of the slo mo swing analysis videos Ive posted. OK, I'll put the money on the table. We all respect Bouldersdad. I think he has the best stuff. Lets see what HE thinks about this video. Whether or not the hips are too much in front of the hands. Now I'm sure you all know each other and don't want to take sides. I could care less about drawing lines in the sand. I'm just really curious what he has to say about it. I certainly DON"T see Brittany doing that in her swing. Now I just have to reason that since all stats can be accessed through a college website, and SL won't tell us which college, that the power numbers just aren't there, just as I suspected all along. I could be wrong. I'm not immune to being wrong, but if I was betting.......and please no more, well Crystl this or Cryst that. I think Howard even admits that he DIDNT teach her how to hit, that was done by her Dad and improved through Candrea if I recall. Ok, I'll be waiting to see if Bouldersdad responds. I don't want to put him on the sport, but I do respect his opinions on hitting.
especially watch the front view. Her hands are so far behind her. Looks like a slap hitter,

Space boy, at least spell her name correctly, Crystl. I have said at clinics, which Tim has been at that I never taught her how her to hit. Her Dad George, her late Uncle Jesse and her travel ball coach Dale did. Coach Candrea did not have the influence on her hitting as you think.

The first time I met Crystl was at my house. One of the kids dad knew her and wanted us to meet because of how we explained to the girls how to it see it, feel it and fix it. We had huge mirrors on both sides of the garage. We discussed things like grip, balance and if you stronger with your head up or down. She started hitting even harder and then we worked on tracking using a strobe light.

After we were done she stated, "This set up and the way you teach is designed around someone with a learning disability isn't it?"
I explained we had several kids that the other coaches had given up on. She said she was also dyslexic and by using the mirrors she could actually see what she was doing and by the testing we were doing about the power of the body it made sense to her. That is when she explained that she was not diagnosed until she was a senior in high school that she had a learning disability and was dyslexic. She was doing a clinic here in Cincinnati the next day and asked me to help her. At the end of the clinic she asked me to be her hitting coach. She stated, "No one could ever explain what they wanted her to do because she could never feel it."

That is why I introduced Tim to her as I was working with Brit then as well as many others and as she got to know them and she encouraged them to work stations at the clinics with their daughters. Also Kavin Morgan, Les Rodgers, Shannon, Chris Schilt, Chris Bowers, Dan Pike, Shane Yeater, Mary Ellen Bonner, Dave Hortman, Kyle Gross, Tom Lee and Joe Abrams, Gary Davis, Carol and Ted, Jerry Breaux, Leon Woods and several others I have probably forgotten as I am getting older.

If you are going to throw innuendos around please be correct in doing so.
 

straightleg

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I think to much is being made of an instructional video. This isn't a swing vid. Its a drill vid. And the drill its self isn't about the hips its about where to make contact. I have kids do a kick drill in no way would they swing like that in a real game. Just as she does not swing this way in a real game. If she did then yes I would say we would have an issue but having coached her when she first started college recruiting she did not swing that way then and I saw her last summer in Columbus playing 23U and she did not swing that way then either. So please do not confuse a drill vid to a swing vid. I ran into this same issue once on DFP and it was a real $hit storm.

Something else to consider is that if this vid was taken when she was a sophomore its about 6 years old and at that time she was still learning the sequence we all used. Over exaggeration comes hand in hand with learning, experimenting and honing a skill thru drills.

I think we all agree the role the hips and hands play and the sequence they fall in. Hips lead hands. Only enough to get a head start then they all meet at the ball at contact driving and pulling the back side thru contact. Or as my football coach always said .... Hit that like your A$$ weighs 5 pounds less than a half ton of coal




Thanks Tim. Its not that hard to figure out.:D
Will have to make some updated video's someday.... But Just about everytime she comes home from college she is working to make spending money...

Good Luck to Brit this spring and hope she stays healthy



Gerry
 
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Hitter

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Sooooooooo....is it a shoe spoon or not?

Space boy....again you mock what you do not understand to stimulate conversation I guess.

With your vast knowledge and having such a special team you have probably never heard the term by a coach, take the knob of the bat to the ball or throw the hands to the ball. Most kids take that literally and on their initial connection, launch, box, elbow slotting they take the knob of the bat to the ball which is exactly what they were told to do. Coach Larabee was working with his travel team the Miami Valley Express at the time and requested if I could come up with something to aid in the explanation of hands inside the ball. When at Wright State for a clinic we demonstrated this to the coaches and players and they seemed to like it and ask how to make it.

Coach Larabee at Wright State (whoops name dropping of someone who has been to the house several times and a college coach who actually came to our clinics and I did clinics with at Wright State) requested a tool the would show where the direction of the elbow traveled. That is the angled piece. The ball is adjustable to the length of the hitters bat. This shows the relationship of the knob of the bat being inside the actual path of the ball which gives the hitter an actual visual of the path of the bat to the ball.

He introduced this to his college team in 2006 I think along with other things we worked on and seemed to do pretty well in the Horizon league prior to going to Arkansas.

So what did you say you were bringing to the part to help anyone on OFC better understand hitting? There is more that one way to hit a ball.....again please explain how you teach your 10 year old team.

A saying Coach B had was most people think the biggest distance in softball is from home plate to first base and then he said it is here and pointed to his head and said, "it is between their ears!"
 

ApogeeDemon

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Oh brother. Now youre taking credit for Wright States success. I'm not sure Coach Larabee would agree with that. Yes, Lenski, I don't think they will tell me if that's a shoe spoon or not. I might try and glue some car parts together and use them as hitting tools today. I found a muffler, an alternator and a steering wheel. I'm sure I can make a hitting tool to improve power with those parts.
 

ApogeeDemon

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Eastern Kentucky Club softball. #9 Shortstop

I'm happy she is still playing the game she loves. I still think she could have made some changes and actually improved her hitting. Oh well, best of luck to her. I'm very happy for her. She seems like a great kid. Just don't get locked into one way of thinking SL. If someone is telling you something, always ask why! If you then see it's not correct, don't be afraid to change. Don't get locked into every word Hitter tells you. I'm giving you props for working with her and trying to make her the best! That's what its all about. Best of luck to Casey. Question everything!

I like the uniforms! https://www.facebook.com/EKUSoftbal...0.1420964114./746540428729017/?type=3&theater
 
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