rule question for those who know..

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A friend of mine who is a pitching coach and a HS coach has been giving lessons for a number of years (paid lessons). One of his students has been going to him for years and now that student is playing for the school that he coaches. The player wants to continue with the pitching lessons as she has for many years. It this violating OHSAA regs? The student still pays for the lessons and the coach is a professional pitching coach.

I know some of you have researched this before and could give us the benefit of your knowledge.

 

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This seems like one of those why pay for the milk when the cow is free deals. I can't answer the rule part if he is getting extra paid instruction from the coach on the side so I assume LadyKnights may be able so reference it for you. However my question is now that most teams are practicing every weekday and this coach is getting paid by the school to instruct and coach shouldn't the kid be getting this same instruction during regular practice without paying anything for as long as the school season lasts?

 

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I assumed he meant after the season, not sure how many kids have time for pitching lessons during the season.

I can't find the rule I had, but I recall if its through a third party or business its ok for a high school or college coach to give lessons. I am gonna try and dig it out from mass of High school softball links folder.

 

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What is the defination of a "professional pitching coach"? Do they get a certificate or do they belong to an organization? I am just curious what would qualify someone to be considered a professional pitching coach. I think that this would have a lot to say about weather or not it is within the rules.

 

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I would assume that a "professional" pitching coach would be one that charges for his services, especially one that has been doing it for a number of years. As far as a certificate... I do not know of a certification body other than the general public that has employed his services over the years.

 

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Well what I meant was simply how would a profesional pitching instructor be considered as such. If there was a clear way to do that then perhaps it would help with the question at hand. I for one have never heard of any such designation. I have heard many instructors refered to as being professional and I have no doubt that they are. The question I think was weather it was legal or not accourding to the high school rules and in the post the point was made that the pitching instructor was a professional. Thats why I asked the question.

Project_Pro I am not sure about the corelation. A professional football player is such because he gets paid for competing in a professioanl league with other professional athletes. The sport is known as Professional football. On the other hand there are literally thousands of pitching instructors and to the best of my knowledge they do not all belong to a professional pitcing instrutor league. They simply mean well, and they are working hard to spread their knowledge. Again the point was is there a way for such an instructor to prove that he or she is a professional or is it simply assumed that they are because they have been teaching pitching for a given period of time. I was just hoping that someone could shed some light on the subject.

Johnnies, I generally agree with your statement. I could be generally assumed that if someone was getting paid to teach something then he or she could be considered professional. I just am not sure how OHSSA would view the instrutors claim to being a professional without some type of certification or something like that.

 

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Just leave out the fact that the pitching coach is getting paid by the pitcher and her parents and apply the normal rules.

In other words, he can coach her all he wants during the h.s. season. Any days in the summer go toward the 10-day staff limit, and he can't coach her at all outside those two periods of time. Otherwise, we would all charge a dime a lesson and coach our high school kids all year long.

 

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If the pitching lessons occur during the softball season, there can not be a violation. Coaches are allowed unlimited contact during the school ball season.

In terms of what makes a person a "professional" pitching coach, that is a harder question.

I would think that legally, there would have to be some intent to make income, and that the person would have to offer lessons on a scheduled basis to some number of people - not just limited to girls from their own school.

I seem to remember that "private" lessons with a skill coach didn't violate the contact rules out of season, but I could be wrong. And the OHSAA will do whatever they want, anyway.

 

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Johnnies, could you clarify if the paid instruction is going on during school season or not?

 

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My understanding has always been that by charging a regular and consistent fee for a pre-determimed time slot, the instructor would be acting in a separate capacity. It does make things interesting that the player now is a member of a team the "instructor" is coaching.

Certainly it opens the door for some to charge "a dollar" to utilize a loophole but I would think that if there was devious whistle-blower on the prowl, OSHAA would investigate and after knowing the details would consider this "legal".

On the other hand, I may be giving the powers that be within OSHAA a little too much credit. The other side fo the coin is that we all know some HS coaches abuse the "open gym" period and I have never heard of penalties being asessed by the OSHAA police. Makes me think this instance could be defended.

More my HO than facts...which I know Johnnies was more interested in. :

 

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A friend of mine who is a pitching coach and a HS coach has been giving lessons for a number of years (paid lessons). ?One of his students has been going to him for years and now that student is playing for the school that he coaches. ?The player wants to continue with the pitching lessons as she has for many years. It this violating OHSAA regs? ?The student still pays for the lessons and the coach is a professional pitching coach.

I know some of you have researched this before and could give us the benefit of your knowledge.

I don't believe I have ran across, during my many readings of the OHSAA Bylaws, any reference to this specific kind of situation. ?But I will put my 2 cents worth in how I think the OHSAA would handle it.

My personal feelings is that the OHSAA would not even look at or consider whether the coach was a paid pitching instructor or not, just the fact that he is her HS coach would be the only thing they would look at. ?With that being said, here are the guidelines they would have to abided by.

During the HS season from Feb.25-June14, no problems, unlimited coaching as a member of her HS team.

June 1-July 31 unlimited coaching as long as the 50% rule is abided by.

August 1-August 3 ?10 day rule would apply

August 4-Sept 1 NO Contact

Sept 2-Feb 23, 2009 ?NO instruction, paid or otherwise

As Joe had mentioned in his earlier post, if OHSAA allowed HS coaches to be paid to give their HS pitchers lessons, this would allow for paid instruction for everything else, hitting, fielding, etc... ?I would be allowed to hold year around instruction and only charge a penny. ?: ?I don't think so. ?:-? Cost of the lesson, whether it's $30 per half hour, or 1 penny an hour wouldn't make a difference.

 

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Does it make a differance if the pitching coach is a volunteer assistant coach on the high school team?

 

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Does it make a differance if the pitching coach is a volunteer assistant coach on the high school team?

If the volunteer assistant is recognized by the school board, they would have to follow the same guidelines as the other HS coaches, doesn't matter if they are paid or not.


OHSAA recognizes any person, recognized by the school board, as a member of the coaching staff.

 

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Thanks Lady Knights