Scoring question

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And I know boulder's dad will agree too once he sees it ...

 

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Ok, here I go with my stab at this.

First, did the runner complete a legal tag-up? Was she standing on 2nd base when the ball was first touched by the RF? Kind of sounds like no if she was retreating to the bag already but since there is no mention of an appeal, she might have tagged-up legally.

But let's assume that she did tag-up legally. Cannot score a SF because the runner did not score.

Any attempt to advance a base when the ball is in play unaided by a safe hit, putout, error, force out, fielder's choice, illegal pitch, base on balls, hit batter, wildpitch, passed ball, interference or obstruction is, by definition, a Stolen Base unless the defense showed "Indifference", then it would be a Fielder's Choice.

Now, I do not have access to my scoring references here at work so if I am way off-base (pun intended) here, then tag me OUT.

UPON FURTHER REVEIW........

I have searched the web high and low. The best answer that I can find on how to score a runner who advances on a tag-up (without scoring) is just an annotation. With the old, traditional style of scorekeeping there is no accomadation for a runner advancing a base on a tag-up which doesn't result in a run scoring. In the Reisner scorkeeping system, Scorecards & Books [Reisner Scorekeeping] , it is just an annotation.

However, if the runner retreated to 2nd base after initially tagging-up and then attempted to advance a base, then I would consider that a Stolen Base attempt.

 

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A stolen base can only be attempted while the ball is being pitched. I would say the best way to score it is 'on the throw'. If, for example, the Outfielder hits the Cutoff and the Cutoff unsuccessfully attempts to throw the Girl out at second, then the Girl advances to third when nobody covers the bag, I would say the Base Runner advanced on the throw from the Cutoff to second base.


I believe 'defensive indifference' is used when the defensive team allows a stolen base, because they do not want to risk the throw. In this case, no stolen base should be awarded.

 

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A stolen base can only be attempted while the ball is being pitched. I would say the best way to score it is 'on the throw'. If, for example, the Outfielder hits the Cutoff and the Cutoff unsuccessfully attempts to throw the Girl out at second, then the Girl advances to third when nobody covers the bag, I would say the Base Runner advanced on the throw from the Cutoff to second base.

I believe 'defensive indifference' is used when the defensive team allows a stolen base, because they do not want to risk the throw. In this case, no stolen base should be awarded.

Ah come on Coach, you know us scorekeeping geeks. We need a reference.

ATEC states: Credit a stolen base to a runner who advances a base unaided by a safe hit, putout, error, force out, fielder's choice, illegal pitch, base on balls, hit batter, wild pitch, passed ball, interference or obstruction.

The Official National Collegiate Athletic Association Baseballand Softball Scorebook states:

SECTION 14. A stolen base is credited:

a. To a runner who advances to a base unaided by a safe hit, putout, error, force, fielder's choice, illegal pitch, wild pitch, base on balls, hit batter, passed ball, interference or obstruction.

No where does it state that a stolen base can only be credited when a pitch is being delivered. A Delayed steal is not started when the ball is being pitched. The pitch is over and the catcher is throwing the ball back to the pitcher.

 

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I'm starting to think this indeed would be a stolen base. If she advanced simply on the fly ball to right it would not be an SB because she would advance aided by a putout. But maybe just getting to the next base on a rundown where a base wasn't covered is just always a stolen base.

 

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I definitely can't put an error on defense - so it has to be either a stolen base or "on the throw". Since it was heads up running - I'll go with a stolen base too.

 

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MLB rule 10.07 lists a similar explanation, but the award of the stolen base is subject to 8 criteria all of which involve a pitch, or a pickoff attempt. I have never heard of a stolen base being awarded while a play was in progress.....but, I have certainly been wrong before....

 

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ATEC does speak to awarding an error for a fielder who fails to do "the right thing" - much as Joe alluded to in his last post.
e - An error is charged on a throw to a base where more than one
fielder could have received a throw and neither did; charge the error
to the fielder who should have received it.

I am assuming the following (my head was starting to hurt from reading all of the scenarios):

The ball was hit to F9 and caught (record an out). The runner on 2 then takes a long lead off the base (or maybe they were stupidly already off the base, it doesn't matter).

F9 throws the ball cleanly to someone. It could be the cutoff, or it could have been all the way to third, but for whatever reason, the runner is now in a pickle.

A rundown dance begins. I have read that third base was left uncovered, and the runner advanced to third to escape the pickle. Someone was supposed to get in line to continue the rundown. Whoever missed that assignment should have been assigned the error, in my opinion. It is not a bad throw or a dropped ball, but a missed assignment. I would think the coach knows who was supposed to be next in line on that rundown.

I have used this rule (once) on a bunt coverage situation where no one covered first on a bunt back to the pitcher. The second basemen should have covered, but did not - they got the error.

 

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Wow, I would say there still is not a absolute " definitive " way this should be scored yet. However, Im leaning towards the player reached 3rd, "on the throw" or stolen base, if indeed that is acceptable given it is not directly after the pitch? ( the delayed steal was a good example) but Im not sure that would still be the same as this scenario to award a stolen base here..

Man good discussion though, and it made me look some things up, which resutled in me learning something.. Go figure lol

 

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Since it was thrown to the wrong base, try advance on a fielder's choice. if you would have recorded an out, depending on who touched, the tag gets a put out and everyone else an assist, so eg 9-5-4-2-6-5

 

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I'd score it FC due to either mental error and/or misjudgement by fielders in rundown.
- Not F9 (tag up) because runner didn't try to advance until they saw throw was offline.
- Not E9 b/c runner's advance to 3B was initially halted.
- Not SB because runner didn't try to advance on pitch or due to a pickoff attempt.
- No physical error (bad throw or missed catch) committed in run down according to coach.

BTW, "on the throw" falls under FC.