Stay to Play

[Strohbro]

I know this has been brought up before but I need to RANT!!
This practice of stay to play has to go. The rates are getting out of hand and the choices are not that great. I wonder if the tournament organizers actually do a review of the hotels they are FORCING us to use!!! I don't care if it's PGF, Triple Crown, a big showcase or who it is. It SUCK*!!!!!
I have heard that if we stop going to these tournaments that it could help change it. I just don't see that happening when they are tournaments teams want to go to. If they want to offer up options that would be great. But to force teams to stay at a certain place or you can't play in our tournament is just flat wrong.
End of rant.......

 

[Davemy]

Name the Tournaments you are talking about ... Are you a Coach or a Parent?

 

[Erie]

I think most of us agrees with this and the 100s of other posts about Stay to Play but it hasn't really changed anything. I'm going to take a different approach...

Last week I got an email from USSSA of Western PA stating he is currently opposed to Stay to Play but he wanted to take a look at it and Traveling Teams. If attending any of these tournaments you have a choice. If you find a hotel outside of Traveling Teams that is better for your teams' needs there will be no penalty for booking outside of Traveling Teams. If you find a hotel that meets your needs within Traveling Teams, book it and USSSA will provide your team with a check of $5 per room per night. I did a ton of looking around for a Tourney in State College we are doing and finally chose a hotel from Traveling Teams ($10 cheaper than Expedia & Hotels for same date). I will now get a check for $120 after the Tourney that will help offset future costs for my families.

Kudos to the decision makers as well at Fireworks Frenzy in Strongsville. Deciding to get rid of gate fees this year after the seeing the frustration of families last year was a move that did not go unnoticed! Thank you.

I am going to make every effort to continually point out those in the minority that are making decisions with the best interests of the girls and their families in mind. To those of you that are in a position to make these types of decisions: please consider the small yet positive impact the decisions mentioned above had on softball families. Finally, although very difficult at times, we as a softball community need to do our best to support and attend those tourneys & organizations that are "doing the right things".

 

[BulldawgsDirector]

Stay to play is a complete racket.

 

[Strohbro]

Name the Tournaments you are talking about ... Are you a Coach or a Parent?

I am a parent

Every single Triple Crown tournament, Pennsbury, every PGF Qualifier and I am sure there are more.

 

[Davemy]

Nobody likes Stay and Play. I don't believe in it either. Some of the Tournaments you mention are run as a business. As a business they are paying a lot of money for Field Rentals, Field Crew, Travel expenses, Marketing cost and who knows what else. I was told by a Tournament Director out of WPA how much they pay for field rental for a Tournament and I couldn't believe it. If its a well run Tournament Teams will come back, If its not, they won't.
Maybe a better option is to promote Better Quality/Regional Tournaments that are not stay and play.

 

[freddieball]

We just eliminated the frustration for this. We just ordered a travel trailer. Looks like we now have family to stay with every where its stay to play. This is on the same level as all the people going to prison for extortion. You can play here, but you must stay here, then the host kicks funds back to the TD. Same principle as the red light camera scandals.

 

[Captain_Thunder]

We just eliminated the frustration for this. We just ordered a travel trailer. Looks like we now have family to stay with every where its stay to play. This is on the same level as all the people going to prison for extortion. You can play here, but you must stay here, then the host kicks funds back to the TD. Same principle as the red light camera scandals.

I am totally against the STP concept.........but unless you have a trailer big enough to fit the entire team - are you not putting the other families on the team at a big disadvantage? Your team may now not use enough rooms, or if everyone does there own thing the team is charged $500 additional for each of these type events they are in!!!! The trailer is a great idea, but for this STP - there needs to be some kind of revolt as a major group! Cause either each family is spending the extra $$$ spreading out each weekend - or paying it in additional fees to cover the penalty charge.......

 

[freddieball]

The rule is at least 8 rooms need to be used or pay a penalty. Our team has more than 8 rooms reserved so us not staying there is not a issue at all. We simply can not dump over $700 for a weekend hotel stay anymore all the time. The good is that everyone can come to our place and we can grill out and socialize in our own setting which would save some money for the other parents as well from having to dine out. We have always stayed in the hotel, and some have been a nightmare.

 

[steve77621]

I don't know if anyone has the stones to do it but i talked to a friend of mine who is a attorney and he told me that if you could prove that any regular person could get that room cheaper "at the same hotel or hotels" that they are trying to make you stay at then you would have one hell of a class action lawsuit. If anyone ever did or does go thru with it then i don't think any of us would ever have to deal with it again.

 

[coachjwb]

Another thing some coaches should consider doing is writing notes to those tournament directors who are requiring this that you would have applied to or played in their tournament if it has not been STP ... regardless if this is the reason or not ... these TD's/organizations requiring it need a good heaping dose of "stay to play, no way".

Charge more for your tournaments if you think you can get it, make a deal with hotels if you can to get a "commission" on anyone you refer there, but don't tell me where I have to stay.

I'd be interesting in hearing from JoeA or one of our other attorneys who frequent this site as to whether Steve's friend is correct about the possibility of a class action lawsuit ... something tells me the chance of success would be remote, but I wouldn't mind it one bit if I was wrong about that.

 

[KillingMeSmalls]

Good explanation of stay to play. It needs to go away.

http://www.sportsdestinations.com/Management/Hotels %26 Lodging/stay-play-5634

 

[sftball follower]

Already did this for upcoming summer for a Columbus tournament. Booked a room at one of THEIR hotels for $30 less.

I don't know if anyone has the stones to do it but i talked to a friend of mine who is a attorney and he told me that if you could prove that any regular person could get that room cheaper "at the same hotel or hotels" that they are trying to make you stay at then you would have one hell of a class action lawsuit. If anyone ever did or does go thru with it then i don't think any of us would ever have to deal with it again.

 

[Irish196]

Well, I'm no JoeA and I don't really practice in that area but I'll throw my two cents in. Like a typical lawyer, I would say "it depends".
I'm guessing Steve's pal is referring to Ohio's Consumer Sales Practices Act and more specifically the statute regarding unconscionable consumer sales acts/ practices. That statute prohibits a seller from committing unconscionable sales practices. In determining whether an act or practice is unconscionable there are various factors that can be considered. One of those is whether the supplier knew that the price was *substantially in excess of the price at which similar property or services were readily obtainable in similar consumer transactions by like consumers*.
The statute does not provide that such a practice is automatically an unconscionable sales practice nor does it provide a definition for "substantially in excess". Other factors include bargaining power, any mental deficiency of the consumer, whether the supplier took advantage of or misled the consumer, whether the consumer received a substantial benefit from the transaction, or if the supplier knew the consumer could not pay for the item in full. So basically, there is no black and white standard under the statute for an unconscionable sales practice/act.
So, in my opinion, for a stay to play situation to rise to the level of an unconscionable sales act, the deal would have to be very egregious. The price would have to be substantially higher than the other guests are charged during the time period-which I would take as at least 50% or more (I'm just guesstimating on that percentage though- my reasoning is that a simple 10-20% higher is not substantial. When a statute says substantial, it means substantial and when it doesn't provide a definition you are to interpret that term "reasonably".). Furthermore, there should be factors other than the price alone that make it unconscionable. Perhaps the hotel advertises that it is four star but it is actually a dive. Maybe it is not secure and there are a lot of break ins. Maybe there is no working elevator and the teams are disabled and only given rooms on the 10th floor and above. Or maybe it is like Flint and the water is not drinkable, etc. etc. My point is that the deal must clearly be unconscionable- not just sucky (for lack of a better word). I don't think there would be many stay to play situations like that. Furthermore, this is not a necessity- we aren't talking utilities or emergency health care, etc. Additionally, the cause of action is against the supplier (the hotel) not the tournament director. So I don't think people should be lawyering up any time soon.

 

[freddieball]

Its too bad that this sport has changed so much that its no longer about the girls life experience and has evolved into a business for profit. Its the same thing as charging to enter a public park. Saw a org on here charge at public park in the Northeast Ohio area and they were trying to charge the people showing up for a family reunion even. These stay to play is not to benefit the players. Nobody can prove it does. I am suppose to pay $150 night at a hotel in Indy when I can get a room for $70 from another hotel 15 minutes away. I just can't justify it anymore. So hello camp ground with full hookup for $28 night.

 

[coachjwb]

I have no doubt that some of the STP hotels and their rates are going to be as good as you can get at many tourneys. Karen ... thanks for your input on the legal side of it ... I expected it would be something like that. While I have occasionally heard complaints of teams getting "gouged" on STP's, I would guess that it's the exception rather than the rule. I just think that there are a lot of us who don't want to be told where we have to stay when we go places, just like we don't want to be told where we have to live/shop/dine/travel/etc. I think the people mandating STP's are running at least a slight risk that some individual family or team is going to have a horrendous experience someday, and then unfortunately it will get interesting.

 

[Irish196]

I have no doubt that some of the STP hotels and their rates are going to be as good as you can get at many tourneys. Karen ... thanks for your input on the legal side of it ... I expected it would be something like that. While I have occasionally heard complaints of teams getting "gouged" on STP's, I would guess that it's the exception rather than the rule. I just think that there are a lot of us who don't want to be told where we have to stay when we go places, just like we don't want to be told where we have to live/shop/dine/travel/etc. I think the people mandating STP's are running at least a slight risk that some individual family or team is going to have a horrendous experience someday, and then unfortunately it will get interesting.

I totally agree with that. I don't like it either and I have always thought that the organization runs some risk in the event that something really bad happens at the hotel(s) they required people to use. The fewer hotels the people have to choose from, I think the greater the risk (a decent lawyer could help minimize that risk though). Not to say the hotel wouldn't be mainly responsible but even having to defend being named in a suit is expensive and would be a huge, if not fatal, financial burden on any sports organization.
I definitely think there is a way to give people choice while still generating extra revenue from area hotels (or getting free rooms for tournament staff etc) it just takes a lot more time and effort than implementing a stay to play policy.

 

[poden-smoden]

 

[Stupid Jim]

its funny that the biggest culprits of this, fail to post anything in this thread, but they have no problem posting about how great they are in every other thread. If any one tells you that they are not getting kickbacks they are full of crap. period! if they weren't getting kickbacks why would they make you stp. you look up any of your rooms at the stp, even the hotels chain web site, and you could book it cheaper. I am so happy that my dd's current team has nothing to do with certain org's or their tourneys.
But remember it's all about the girls, so that makes it ok to try and fleece the parents every chance they get, because the only chance for little suzy to go to collage is if she goes to this tourney put on by this organization.
I have noticed this year that some more teams are starting to take notice, and are changing venues. until more and more parents stand up and say that enough is enough then it will continue.

 

[brownsfan]

All I can say is WOW with the pic and the assumptions without knowing all of the facts. Every major showcase in the nation and now a lot of nationals are going that route. It's not just softball, but other sports as well. I'm not a big fan of it, but it also has it's advantages. One of the biggest advantages I'm starting to see, better orgs are now coming to Ohio more frequently. Ohio is now on the map for softball. That in turn does help our dd's get better. Take it for what it's worth.