coachjwb
Well-Known Member
Brownsfan ... I agree with your comments 95% of the time, but are you implying that STP is bringing more teams to Ohio?? Could we not have big showcases without STP??
Stay to Play
- Thread starter Strohbro
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How is it an advantage to screw parents, teams and/or organizations forcing them to stay where the tournament dictates them to??? Ohio has been on the map long before this.
No. I'm not a big fan of it. BUT, I am looking at it from another perspective. Before PGF came to the state (which has the STP policy), to play Beverly Bandits, Indiana Dreams, Virginia Glory, Birmingham Thunderbolts, etc, you had to leave the state. You're spending money in rental cars, gas, food, hotels to get these girls out of the state to face these type of teams. This was not even 7 years ago. Since PGF (which has that STP), the Thunderbolts has came to this state, Virginia Glory is coming to Ohio twice this upcoming season. I'm seeing Indiana Dreams coming more often. This is why I claimed Ohio wasn't on the map before. We weren't drawing these teams. As a result, Ohio as a whole are now faring much better at nationals at the national level and not just an individual team here and there. The reason I feel this way is from a well respected coach named Marie Shaver gave me a list of tournaments and who to play for when dd was 10U. Only one Ohio tournament was mentioned for 14U that was in Ohio and that was Stingrays. I keep in touch with her regularly and I keep her updated on what's going on in Ohio.
I would rather have PGF here with the STP and spend a few bucks more to face these teams than to spend a couple hundred more in gas, restaurants along the way, possible motel night for those who aren't crazy like me and drive to CA in under 3 days, etc (gotta keep it somewhat humorous). Like I mentioned earlier, I'm not a fan but I can't change it. But it seems more lately everyone is dogging on this one org and flying accusations around and it's time to start standing up.
coachjwb
Well-Known Member
I think it's fine and quite possible to be a fan of PGF without being a fan of STP. It's not STP that defines PGF or which makes PGF successful. Now, if you make an argument that it's the presumed profit they make from STP that allows them to do the other things which make them successful, then you begin to make a case. Personally, I think their success comes from their focus on fastpitch, the marketing they have done of the organization, and the quality of the events they generally put on. Do they need the profit from STP to do all of this ... maybe ... but I'm a finance guy so I'd have to hear that argument from them and see the numbers.
And just for clarification, at least in my eyes, this thread is about STP and not about any sanctioning organization.
And just for clarification, at least in my eyes, this thread is about STP and not about any sanctioning organization.
poden-smoden
Member
WOW..I know the facts, and you are the one with assumptions! I am an outlaw ya so and so!!
Pic was sent to me as it is shown years ago due to my camping at tournaments for years. Have had several different camping type things in my time and one almost as ugly as the one pictured. Most all of my posts are of the humorous side and that is what it was meant to be. Someone mentioned camping!
I tend not to share my real opinions on here to much for fear that no one would really care anyway but I will say that.....
Lasers and Outlaws are both the best but do it in a different way and the rivalry is fun and sometimes comical.
STP sucks but so does staying in any hotel for that matter. I do appreciate that the teams are coming to Ohio and unfortunately I have spent a mint traveling in my time whether it was in Cousin Eddies Rv or not.
People need to make money, period! I understand that. Suck it up and pay it. Gate fees, STP, Team fees, tournament fees, whatever it is! That is like saying Demarini should give bats away for free because it is all about the girls!
PGF/ASA...don't matter!!! If you end up top ten in either year end festivities, you are a seriously superior team.
I do not care for California and PGF always being out there for nationals but glad that there is PGF in Ohio for the rest of the year. Been out there a few times and never want to go back! DD is winning record against California teams and most losses out there came from southern and Midwest teams. One loss was against the raisinettes or some SH*&T!!!
10U is awesome and hilarious?wish I had a ten year old!
Lastly, school ball sucks!
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coachjwb
Well-Known Member
Poden ... I think you covered it all ... we can probably have Ricky shut down all of the other threads! 
Alrighty then, I stand corrected on the pic. I'm just getting tired of the finger pointing and the non-sense. In fact, I wasn't going to post on this thread until another poster said what they said. So the pic you posted didn't affect me. What I bolded is the point I was trying to make.
Poden ... I think you covered it all ... we can probably have Ricky shut down all of the other threads!
I wouldn't want this thread shut down as long as it's kept clean. There were some valid points, it was the accusations that put me over.
Stupid Jim
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I see, as long as someone from the outlaws says that's its ok, then it must be ok, my intent was not to make accusations towards any person or sanctioning body. It was to just point out that it is a money grab, and if your are going to tell me that the only way to play the teams that you want to play is to overcharge and fleece the parents, then I say more power to you. But you cannot expect other people to be happy about it.
- I hate stp
- You may not
- I hate stp
- You may not
Jim,
It's all good to be unhappy about it. When we go to out-of-state, I don't want to do it; so I get what you're saying. But I'm not going start saying the TD is fleecing the parents, it's an overcharge, accuse of using words that was said out of context and throw it back in their face. I wasn't going to say anything until that post came up. People have a right to voice frustrations. But it's like medication that tlls you that if you take this heart medicine you won't have a hard attack....However, don't get cut because you could bleed to death.
It's all good to be unhappy about it. When we go to out-of-state, I don't want to do it; so I get what you're saying. But I'm not going start saying the TD is fleecing the parents, it's an overcharge, accuse of using words that was said out of context and throw it back in their face. I wasn't going to say anything until that post came up. People have a right to voice frustrations. But it's like medication that tlls you that if you take this heart medicine you won't have a hard attack....However, don't get cut because you could bleed to death.
steve77621
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brownsfan, my post was not directed at your organization. the stay to play my team was at was hosted by someone else and it was the worst run tournament i have ever been at (in my opinion) and there were almost no college coaches there. but when you say people don't know all the facts just answer me one question? 2 of the top organizations in ohio are hosting a tournament the same weekend this year, (they will both draw really good teams as i was at 1 of these tournaments last year and indy dreams,prospects, classics, and several other top teams were there. i have looked at the teams that the other tournament draws and they are excellent also. 1 tournament is 7 game guarantee for $650 and you can stay wherever you want. the other is 5 game guarantee for $775 and you must stay to play? what are people supposed to think? in my opinion it's obvious what is going on? are these not facts?
Stupid Jim
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First of all, it IS a money grab, not an accusation, and until some one can prove me wrong I standing on that point. I cant understand how there are tourneys for charities that cost half of other tourneys and they don't have stp.
freddieball
Member
I would be interested to see if there is public tax information somewhere. I wander if Dan Hay is still the CEO. It looks like in 2012 PGF used to make you purchase a banner and buy the softballs from them.
On a side note last summer at Indy we had to stay at a STP place and my 9yr old daughter had her foot sliced open from a broken clear beer bottle by the pool. The staff said "we are sorry we thought it was all cleaned up". Her foot would not stop bleeding for hours it looked like someone was murdered. Just when we thought it was stopped it would break open and continue to bleed. Never heard a word from the management or anyone. We would not have stayed here if it wasn't stp because I found cheaper hotels closer to the fields. Here was the hotel.
STAYBRIDGE SUITES INDIANAPOLIS-FISHERS
9780 Crosspoint Blvd
Indianapolis, Indiana 46256 United States
On a side note last summer at Indy we had to stay at a STP place and my 9yr old daughter had her foot sliced open from a broken clear beer bottle by the pool. The staff said "we are sorry we thought it was all cleaned up". Her foot would not stop bleeding for hours it looked like someone was murdered. Just when we thought it was stopped it would break open and continue to bleed. Never heard a word from the management or anyone. We would not have stayed here if it wasn't stp because I found cheaper hotels closer to the fields. Here was the hotel.
STAYBRIDGE SUITES INDIANAPOLIS-FISHERS
9780 Crosspoint Blvd
Indianapolis, Indiana 46256 United States
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Valid points to some point. But your argument concerning the two tournaments in your example has a flaw. There is another great tournament with great competition in Ohio the weekend right after Stingrays. The cost if $620.00 for a five game guarentee with no STP. Why then would 7 Ohio teams (using only 16U) choose to drive 567 miles south to Atlanta on the same weekend (or fly there) for another great tournament with great competition that has the same game guarantee for over double the tourney fee with a STP policy? Is it to provide kickbacks to the organization's that are hosting it?
For the 4th or 5th time, I'm not a fan of it. But it's in all sports. We complain of high tournament fees because those fees are passed onto our player fees, correct? Has anyone other than a TD priced out three or four days of field rentals? To help offset that cost and keep the tourney fees lower, STP can come into play. What about college coaches? Most get their lunches for free. How do they get the price of that offset? This is from some of the research I've done. To me it makes sense.
STP makes sense to the teams that carry 14+ rosters. Half need to get the STP, the other half doesn't. However, people then complain about playing time. This can go on and on. We could argue this for days and everyone bring in valid arguments. But unless we are the one (as a person) hosting it, we shouldn't assume there are kickbacks. If you do want to throw that stone, then why play on a team that's going to these type of tournaments?
Is the problem with STP the fact people just dont want to be told what to do? Honestly, the rates for the hotels for the majority of STP tournaments i've come across has a BETTER rate than what that particular hotel would usually charge. And if thats the case, i dont give a shit who gets a kick.
3ballbratz
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I think the problem is that it's a scam or at least people assume it's a scam. Why do TD's care where we stay ? Are TD's in the travel agency business or the softball business ? What's next ? Are we going to have to spend x amount of dollars on concessions ? Stick to softball. It's easy enough for them to add whatever extra money they're getting into the entry fee. If its $1500 its $1500. Not $995 with an elaborate scam to get the extra $500. If you want credibility and people to quit complaining then be straight up ! Cut the bullshit ! No more smoke and mirrors magic show. Just charge the extra money up front. Simple as that. God knows travel parents arent afraid to spend money. But when you create elaborate ways to make extra money it opens up this debate and eventually people get upset. I'm annoyed there are actually people on here supporting it honestly.
coachjwb
Well-Known Member
3ballbratz ... excellent post/points ...
Chris ... no doubt a lot of this is people not wanting to be told where they have to stay. To be honest, I could personally care less ... I'll stay about anywhere to go see some softball ... but if I'm responsible for and need to make a wife and my kids happy too, then I want choices. Add to it then 3ball's point that people are going to make assumptions that the TD is hiding and pocketing some additional moneys from them, then you're going to have issues ... even though it's quite possible that they may be getting just as good of rates as they could get anyhow.
Chris ... no doubt a lot of this is people not wanting to be told where they have to stay. To be honest, I could personally care less ... I'll stay about anywhere to go see some softball ... but if I'm responsible for and need to make a wife and my kids happy too, then I want choices. Add to it then 3ball's point that people are going to make assumptions that the TD is hiding and pocketing some additional moneys from them, then you're going to have issues ... even though it's quite possible that they may be getting just as good of rates as they could get anyhow.
The tournament following Stingrays doesn't hold a candle to Atlanta Legacy. The talent there and the amount of coaches is no contest.
