Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Stealing pitch signals

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I'm sure this has been debated before here, but I'd like to get a fresh viewpoint on it. ?During our high school varsity season this year, about half of the teams we played put a concerted effort into stealing the pitching signals between the coach and the catcher. ?Our main pitcher has an average speed fastball but an extremely effective knuckle change and I know that's the main thing they are focusing on. ?In most cases, its one or two of the opposing players (often the catcher), but in a few cases it was one of their coaches. ?Played a tourney game last night and as far as I could tell, that's really all one of the opponent's assistant coaches did the whole game. ?Of course we watch for this to happen, and we change the signals frequently and some teams give up on it, but the coach last night just kept stealing them and it was such an annoyance, and it just didn't seem "right" to me. ?I know what my daughter's summer coach did last year when he saw that happening ... he had the pitcher hit the next batter, but I really don't buy that philosophy either. ?I personally feel like I have better things to do during the game than to try to steal the other team's signals myself. ?I am just interested in conversation around this. ?I'm sure I will get back the "its part of the game" or "let the catcher call the pitches", but am just interested in hearing how other high school coaches feel about this.

 

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To each his own. I don't try to steal signs, but it has always been a part of the game and it always will be a part of the game. Having a pitcher hit a batter on purpose is a little rough for youth ball, but that stuff happens when the big boys play. A brush back pitch should send the same message if that's how you want to play the game.

 

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Change the signs.....Use a fastball sign for your knuckle sign and see how they like that......Reverse them..............

 

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If you are playing to win, then stealing signs are part of the game. I have never had much success at it, so I don't bother. Now if I could find out when an offspeed pitch is coming, I would use it to my advantage. I get frustrated when coaches are trying to pick my signs, but I don't let it get to me, or throw at batters because of it. I just work a little harder at outcoaching my opponent. I've moved away from giving finger signs and moved to giving hand signs, like a 3rd base coach. Can be a lot harder to steal, and at times easier for your cather and other players to see.

 

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Stealing signs is a part of the game????? Please......I would rather put my time into teaching my players to hit all kinds of pitching than to teach them how to steal signs. IMHO it is a classless act to have a person designated as a sign stealer and nothing could ever convince me otherwise. If winning is SO important that you have to resort to this tactic, then you are taking the game out of the girl's hands to a degree, and they are the reason we are there in the first place...right?

 

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Bobby ... well said. In fairness, I'm guessing the coaches for the most part are not teaching the girls or even instructing their assistants to steal signs, but it is happening on a regular basis and it just doesn't sit well with me. I agree though that those coaches and girls should be learning how to do things like recognize how to read the change that some pitchers give away, and certainly how to stay back and hit it. We do change the signals and reverse them as was suggested (there's nothing more fun than watching a batter swing way late on a fastball when their coach told them to look for a change!), but it just seems like such a cheap move and like I say its just plain annoying.

 

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I don't have a problem with people stealing our signs. However, we work more with our girls to study the pitcher's hand and to watch things that the pitcher will do to give away her pitches.

 

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Stealing signs to me is disrespectful. As a coach you need to teach the kids to hit different pitches. I dont even watch the Coach or catcher, I watch the pitcher and prepare my batter to look for pitches in different situations. That to me is like having a spy in a huddle in a football game. The other coach and I would probably discuss that topic after the game.

 

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We don't go into a game trying to steal signs, BUT....We played against a coach who stood outside the dugout and called the pitches and was giving away the signs to everyone. His system was so basic you couldn't help but pick it up. I didn't exploit it, BUT.... It was a close game so I said "Change", or "Heat" to my batters when I knew it was coming in the later innings and we smoked a few deep to win. I don't think that is cheap at all. The coach should have at least tried to disguise the signs a little bit. My catchers call their own game and change signals often. That is all it takes to keep your signs from being picked up. I don't think it is a big deal, but if you can pick up our signs then more power to you.

 

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I'm not a big fan of stealing signs...it may be part of the game but with youth softball its a little too easy to do. Cheapens the game a bit. In the last two weeks, I've had two teams steal my bunt and steal signs for our U12 rec program. That's going a little too far...heck, some of these kids don't know an indicator from a take sign. Anyway, I reversed the signs, gave my best hitter the bunt sign, waited for the coach to see the sign, he called out bunt, and then she drove the ball right past the 3rd baseman! That was the last time he tried it.

I also coach travel ball at an older age. If my players can steal the signs, I let them (they think its kind of fun to try) but I'd never assign that duty to a coach.

 

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I don't waste my time trying to steal signs either. I sometimes when coachimg first don't even use steal signs. I just tell the girls when I want them to take off. The opposing first baseman ussually starts having conniptions after about the second time. The opposing team still has to make the play even if they know whats coming.

 

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Here's an idea... why don't you teach your catcher how to call a game so your coaches don't have to call pitches for her?

CC

 

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CC,
Good idea, but as I sit here watching #1 UCLA's catcher taking signs from the dugout, I wonder why? Then we expect our HS or travel ball catcher to give the right signs?
Give them the tools to be able to call a game, but few coaches will ever give the full responsibility to the catcher. JMHO
Coach Yeater

 

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Lady Knights...

That just goes to show how coaching has been "dumbed down". If a college level catcher (UCLA no less!!!) can't call her own game, it doesn't say much for the coaching she's recieved to that point. I doubt HIGHLY that UCLA's baseball team takes signals from the dugout on what pitches to throw.

CC

 

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The catchers should get the signal from the coach because he/she is the one who knows all the backround information on where they can hit and what types of pitches that will create easy ground outs. On the topic of stealing the signs, i really do not see the need to do this. There is no point taking signs from another team just to win. The batter is responsible for hitting the ball no matter where the pitch is. If the catcher calls for a drop outside and you know that its coming, you will adjust for that pitch, and then when something goes wrong and she brings it in, you won't be able to hit it. So just play the game to have fun like it used to be played!

 

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My catchers call their own game...ALWAYS. Of course we practice this over and over and over. Even my middle school catchers can call their own games. Coaching is teaching all aspects of the game not just hitting and fielding. If my catcher can't call a game, then I have not done my job. I think it is a slap in the face to an older catcher to have to look in the dugout for a sign. The coach should groom his catchers like he does any other position. jmho.

 

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it is my opinion that in high school ball for tournament purposes, the teams have been scouted so it is not the catchers responsibility to know each batter as they come up to bat. let the coach call the pitches. they have the info.
once again, we are talking about high school ball, not travel ball.

 

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I think that my daughter's greatest asset as a catcher is the ability to study the batter's stance and swing. She has worked hard on figuring out what types of pitches are difficult for a batter to hit. It probably helps that she is also a pitcher.

Recently she called pitches for a game, and the only person to get a hit was on a pitch that the pitcher shook off.

If a coach knows things about a batter because of scouting, it is a good idea for the coach to discuss these things with the catcher. However, the coach does not see everything that the catcher can see. It is possible that catchers could make better pitch selections.

I remember when my daughter was a freshman pitcher for her high school. She developed a great relationship with her catcher, and they were outstanding together. Then, the assistant coach decided he wanted to call pitches--a coach who until that season had never coached fastpitch and had only played slowpitch. Let's just say it was ugly.

 

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To those who live on stealing signs, how do your hitters survive in the tough games against teams with a higher softball IQ that hide the signs?
You're only setting your hitters up for failure when it means the most

 

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even if the player knows what pitch is coming they still have to be able to hit it. who really cares