to pull back or not?????????

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I thought in ASA ball, you have to pull back the bat on a ball to get the call. It seems there is alot of confussion with both coaches and umpires this year. What is it??????????

 

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I assume we're talking about bunts? I believe NFHS may have passed a rule that said if you didn't pull back on a bunt attempt it was a strike (even if you made no movement toward the ball), but ASA didn't approve that change.

 

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Agree that there is much confusion...some of the umpires at the Cap City tourni and Elyria Softball tourni called a "ball" even though the girl did not pull back on the bunt.

 

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IF it was an ASA tournament then they were correct.

 

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We have yet to see that new rule called at any NSA tournaments either.

 

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As Bear previously stated, you do not have to pull the bat back in ASA, this is strictly a HS rule.

 

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You have to pull it back in USSSA as well - new for this year.

 

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I'm seeing some confusion this year on the new "bunt/offer" rule, too. I've had some coaches in ASA games argue for the "new" rule to be enforced.

Up until this year, NCAA softball was the only organization I was aware of that defined a "bunt attempt" as merely holding the bat out in the strike zone. Under the NCAA rule, just holding out the bat equaled "an offer" or an "attempt to contact the pitch". The batter was forced to withdraw the bat from the strike zone, or pull it back, to "take" the pitch.

For 2009, high school softball (NFHS) changed their rule to match the college rule. Previously, their rule was the same as the ASA rule.

As often is the case, the USSSA rule committee followed the high school rule change and modified their rule to match the NFHS rule.

ASA has not changed their rule, nor has NSA. In both of those organizations, simply holding the bat over the plate does not automatically equal "an offer". There must be some subsequent movement of the bat toward the ball in an effort to contact the pitch.

As an aside, since some of you might be involved in the "other stick and ball game", the rules of baseball still require movement of the bat toward the ball to be ruled "an offer" and do not require the bat to be pulled back to take the pitch.

Whereas NCAA softball used to be the "odd man out" with regards to this rule, now you have a near split down the middle, with some organizations calling it one way and others another. That is a recipe for confusion! Some coaches are confusing the rule and so, too, are some umpires.

I can't even guess at how the dozen other sanctioning bodies are handling this now. I have a hard enough time keeping up with the rule changes for the ones I'm actually working! If there is some doubt about your games, my suggestion would be to look up the definition of a "Bunt" in the front section of your rule book. This is usually where the rule will be defined and described with respect to holding the bat in the strike zone.

 

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I had a NSA & ASA umpire tell me the girls had to pull back and both times it was in N. Ridgeville. I came home afterwards and tried to find it and couldn't find anything in ASA or NSA Book. I did find it for High School. So I really didn't know for sure what was right and still don't I guess. I have one for Bretman. We were on defense and my catcher drop(trap) the 3rd strike, but the ump call strike 3 out. So I had my catcher throw it back to the pitcher. The batter ran to first like she suppose to do and the other team wanted to appeal the call of the home plate ump. I said it wasn't appealable due to he said out. So they appealed it and the base ump said she safe. I said how can she be safe when the home ump said out and didn't give us a chance to make a play. I guess I don't know whos right it was the right call but when I heard out there was no reason to throw it to 1st. with a runner on 2nd

 

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If you go through any sort of formal umpire training, you will be told that on a called third strike to only say, "Strike", or "Strike three" and NEVER say, "Out", or "Batter's out" in conjunction with the call.

The reason this is taught is illustrated by your play. If you routinely say, "Out" as part of the call, you run the risk of calling the batter out when the ball isn't caught, she isn't out and can advance to first base.

You probably didn't have an experienced or well-trained umpire behind the plate if he's calling third strikes like that. And, you probably didn't have an experienced crew working the games either, if the base umpire "overruled" the plate umpire!

The base umpire can't do that. This is the plate umpire's call and no umpire can EVER overturn another umpire's call. One umpire can consult with the other umpire to see if he saw something he didn't, then the umpire who made the original call can change it.

These are small points, but points that can really screw up a game if the umpires don't follow them!

Since the "reversed" call has put one team or the other at a disadvantge, the plate umpire is obligated to correct it. He has to ask himself which team was disadvantaged and try to come up with a remedy as close to "what should have happened" as he can.

On this play, since the ball was in the catcher's mitt and the catcher reacted to the bad "out" call, you should probably enforce the out. In all likelihood, the catcher had ample time to make the throw and beat the runner.

There might be a different "fix" if, for instance, this was a passed ball or wild pitch with the catcher giving chase back to the screen. In that case, the runner would have likely been safe anyway and you could keep her at first base.

The easiest "fix" is to not call batter's out when they're not really out in the first place!

 

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Thanks brettman. I mention it to the base ump after the inning and after he thought about it he said I was right. I didn't have my catcher throw the ball because I heard out and they had a runner on 2nd. I didn't want her to advance. I talked to the home plate ump about it but he didn't want to listen. It really didn't hurt us but I thought I would say something to him so if it happens to him again in a game he would make the right call. He only did this once in our game it wasn't like he call out everytime on 3rd drop strike. thanks again brettman

 

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we had ASA ump's tell us the rule changed (at our Static Tournament) and it was identical to USSSA rules.