Tough decision...what would you have done?

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If you did nothing about a girl with two arms could you sleep at night? Girls get hit in the face every year which is why many wear a mask. Or would you, as an ump require all girls wear a mask? Would you sleep at night if a girl with two arms was hit and you let her play?

I don't think you can argue that it is safe for ANY girl to pitch without a mask but wouldn't protecting only the girl with the disability be discrimination? Would you do it because you felt sorry for her? Just some thoughts for discussion.

This is a good discussion.

I'm not saying she should wear a mask, I am saying that this player cannot properly defend herself from a batted ball with the basic required equipment---her glove. This is what I would consider a High Level Risk situation. A pitcher (or player) that is properly equipped and able to defend herself at all phases of the pitch (or normal play) is what I would consider a Normal Level Risk situation.

Any player that cannot properly defend themselves during play with the minimum required equipment would be a High Level Risk situation. So, to me, it is all about managing the risk. If I allowed a player to be in a High Risk Level situation and she got hurt, then I believe that I would have trouble sleeping that night or kicking myself into next month (I would feel real bad).

Once she can master switching the glove so that she can at least put a glove up to deflect a line drive, then I, as an umpire, coach, parent, or even as an observer, would have no problem with her playing that position.

If I saw that a coach put a kid at 3rd base that couldn't pay attention, I would talk with the coach. Heck, when we coached 8U and 10U rec teams, we always put the kid would couldn't catch a ball in full catcher's gear behind the plate so they couldn't hurt themselves. Even in HS indoor league when I was coaching 3rd base, I would have to tell a clueless 3rd baseman that she shouldn't be standing 15 feet from Home plate (without a mask) with our power hitter at the plate. ("But coach told me to cover the bunt." "Trust me sweetie, she's not bunting."

I am not saying that she cannot play. She can play some other position, as she did. I'm saying that someone on the field needs to evaluate the risk and apply the proper measures to mitigate the risk. Someone (the coach) needs to find some grit and tell the kid, and her mom, that until she can master switching the glove, she cannot be put into a high level risk situation. A coach is a Leader. Making those decisions is what being a Leader is all about.

OMG, I sound just like our Safety Manager at work.

 

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Always go with what your gut tells you! He made the right call regardless of what the politically correct posters think. It's only a game versus what could be a potential horrific injury. Sometimes it doesnt take much to be wiser than the parents and or coach.

 

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Missed the call Blue. Girl refused to wear a mask, ump's wouldn't let her play. Would you?

No missed Call!

Quote
"As she was not wearing a mask, and because it was obvious that she could not protect herself from a line shot up the middle, we told him that we would not allow her to pitch."

I can't find where it said that this girl refused to wear a Facemask, only whats quoted above. So is a Face Mask part of the required equipment for a pitcher in order to pitch in Rec Ball? If the answer is NO! Then the umpire had no authority to have her removed from pitching.

I fully understand the Safety issue of this matter. But let me just say this. This could become a very sticky issue for some if this matter were to be taken to a Civil Rights Attorney is all I'm saying. While the umpire may express a concern about her safety which is understandable I personally don't believe he had the authority to remove her from pitching in the game.

Thats why they have Courts, Judges, and Juries!;&

FASTPITCH! Anything else, And you're playing too SLOW!

 

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As an ASA District Commissioner as well as an ASA umpire, you cannot discriminate based on a handicap. Let her play.
What if a girl was obviously way too slow to react even with a glove on without a physical handicap?? What if a third or 1st baseman position themselves 10 feet from homeplate without an indication that the batter was going to bunt?? These are also "unsafe" situations.
I would suggest that you pull the coach aside and recommend that she or any other player should wear a protective mask as a "RECOMMENDATION". If the player did get hurt, it sure would look bad on the coach that he/she had this recommendation and did not react on it.
As a fastpitch Softball Director, I would insist on any slow reaction player to wear more protection in our program.

An umpire is there to enforce the rule book. A suggestion to the coach and/or parent is all you can do. They should appreciate your concern but it ends there. You have to let them play. Her parent was obviously at the game and if after the suggestion she didn't put on a mask, you have no right to overrule the parent's decision.

Just the facts........

 

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The more I think about this, they more I still agree with OnTheBucket. How many people who has posted on this has their travel dd play rec to work on thier games? A power hitter working on the change up because she knows she will get a steady dose of slower speeds.

I don't care if the girl wears a mask or not, the key to what OnTheBucket stated was "The switch over process was not done very quickly or smoothly". So, you have a travel power hitter who is working on her change up. What do we tell the hitters, drive the ball back at the pitcher. So, she loads and fires a line shot back at the pitcher. Let's say the shot doesn't go to the face but the abs. Only girl with cat like reflexes in travel can stop that. Obviously this girl does not have cat like reflexes.

How about this? Working in a cage throwing front toss. Do you use a net in front of you? Why? Safety.

Wvanalmsick said it best--don't have her pitch until she can master the transfer of the pitch to put a glove on first before feeding her to the rubber.

 

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This is a clear case of discrimination against a player with a disability. Even if the rules allowed the umpires to control a game at this level of detail the federal laws do not.

How do you think Abbot got so good at transferring his glove? He started on some rec league mound and figured it out. He practiced and practiced and practiced. I am certain that in that era he had more than one ump/coach/fan tell him what he couldn't do. He had to learn the glove transfer in game situation, what better place than in a 14U game.

These people struggle every day with barriers that able people never see. As an umpire you should never erect more barricades for challenged players. If safety was mandated then we would have masks on all of our players. If competency at a position was a requirement to play; then we would never field a team at any age and certainly we would not have any umpires calling balls and strikes.

Find the girl a mask-maybe but to forbid her a chance-never. Ths was a bone-headed call and should be reversed.

 

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What do we tell the hitters, drive the ball back at the pitcher. So, she loads and fires a line shot back at the pitcher. Let's say the shot doesn't go to the face but the abs. Only girl with cat like reflexes in travel can stop that. Obviously this girl does not have cat like reflexes.

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:LMAO: So if only a girl with cat like reflexes in travel can stop that, why let anybody pitch who isnt a travel pitcher? Should we put them in a big bubble? Eventually if we only let travel pitchers pitch we can weed all pitchers entirely. Go to just a tee or pitching machine lol. I really dont get a few these examples of why she shouldnt be able to pitch, there are a whole lot of "what ifs" and most talk about girls without a handicap getting hit or only travel players with cat like reflexes being able to stop a line shot.

I say we dont let anybody play without Safety glasses, Fielding Mask, shin gaurds, mouth gaurds, hearing protection, SPF 150, Elbow pads, wiffle balls, wiffle ball bats and there must be a parent standing right next to each kid at all times so they know what they are suppose to do on every play, that way a kid never feels bad for making a mistake. At the end of each season everybody plays in the championship game and every wins the championship game. The wussification of america's youth would be complete!

Let the kid play, if she gets hurt, she gets hurt. As with ANY athlete they need game time to perfect their craft. She is going to need game time to work on her glove transfer. Just like a kid working on her change up it might look good with dad sitting on the bucket but its something else entirely different in the pressure of a game. She needs game reps.

I do believe kids should wear a mask pitching and at the corners, but there are 2 different debates going on here.

 

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So, suppose this girl did pitch and got drilled and ended up being seriously injured or killed. Do you hear the obvious questions being posed? "Who was the responsible adult who allowed this kid to be put in such a dangerous situation?" "You mean you recognized the hazard to this child and did nothing to stop it?"

For those of you who are criticizing on the bucket, how many of you would want to stand up in that situation and say "yes that responsible adult would be - ME"?

I don't know what I would have done but I'm glad I wasn't in that situation.

 

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I wonder how many of you guys who are so concerned with safety are sending your kids up with wood bats. Most of you are sending your kids up with $300 composite bats, looking for the hottest bat you can find.

 

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I wonder how many of you guys who are so concerned with safety are sending your kids up with wood bats. Most of you are sending your kids up with $300 composite bats, looking for the hottest bat you can find.

Bad comparison because all those players are on a level playing field. Kid with a missing arm isn't.

 

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Uber...come on man

Listen. if the girl had cat like reflexes, can put a glove on after pitching, then I have no problems with that. But it was stated she wasn't there yet. Now, if he stated her reflexes were good enough, then I would have gone the other way. Too many people see a tree from the forest. The facemask, that's a different story. But I feel OnTheBucket did the right thing with the observations he made.

My dd pitches. I also fire balls at her at close range at times when we are outside. Before someone goes ballistic let me PC this, not at her but near her. To help build up her speed for the quick come backers. She had a couple already and snagged them so I'm glad I do.

 

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I agree that this is two different debates. It is definitely not the umpire's job to decide on what is safe and what isn't, as long as a player is within the rules. At the same time, as an adult who has some experience in the game, it would be hard not to try to do something if you see a situation that you know is dangerous well beyond what is normal.

It's kind of a "maybe this is none of my business, but I just can't sit idly by and let this happen," type of situation.

 

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Bad comparison because all those players are on a level playing field. Kid with a missing arm isn't.

An experienced travel player "working on hitting changeups" in a recreational game with a $300 hot bat IS NOT a level playing field. Complete lack of good judgement and common sense.

Uber has an excellent point. Now let's really see who all the safety pundits are...

 

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An experienced travel player "working on hitting changeups" in a recreational game with a $300 hot bat IS NOT a level playing field. Complete lack of good judgement and common sense.

Uber has an excellent point. Now let's really see who all the safety pundits are...

Look I know you are on a crusade to rid the world of $300 hot bats; however, what exactly are you calling a lack of good judgement and common sense?

 

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The more I think about this, they more I still agree with OnTheBucket. How many people who has posted on this has their travel dd play rec to work on thier games? A power hitter working on the change up because she knows she will get a steady dose of slower speeds.

The highlighted text was my reference. I used this as a reference to your statement about a level playing field. The handicapped player would have a better chance of being on a level playing field if not for a potential situation like this.

Maybe a "crusade" to rid the world of slow-reflexed pitchers would be better? Methinks a double standard is in effect here.

This is all about "reasonable risk" and in the event of injury, who is responsible.

 

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No missed Call!

Quote
"As she was not wearing a mask, and because it was obvious that she could not protect herself from a line shot up the middle, we told him that we would not allow her to pitch."

I can't find where it said that this girl refused to wear a Facemask, only whats quoted above. So is a Face Mask part of the required equipment for a pitcher in order to pitch in Rec Ball? If the answer is NO! Then the umpire had no authority to have her removed from pitching.

I fully understand the Safety issue of this matter. But let me just say this. This could become a very sticky issue for some if this matter were to be taken to a Civil Rights Attorney is all I'm saying. While the umpire may express a concern about her safety which is understandable I personally don't believe he had the authority to remove her from pitching in the game.

Thats why they have Courts, Judges, and Juries!;&

Sometimes you have to use intelligent reasoning. She was told she could not pitch...WHY...because she was not wearing a mask. Could she have pitched if she put on a mask...of course. What did she do..she played the outfield. Intelligent reasoning would deduce that she refused to wear a mask. If she hadn't she could have put one on and pitched! In blogs you tend to let the reader make some reasonable assumptions because it would be way too time consuming to type everything out.

I find it amazing that some would put this on an ump. They now have to decide the level of risk???? Some two armed pitchers would be at high risk with the way they finish, being in a position that would keep them from defending themselves. Many third base players would be at high risk when they play so close to cover a bunt that if the batter swings away they would be at high risk. Do umps now tell these girls to put on a mask even the rules allow them to play without one??

This ump just made himself king of this girl's safety above the association, the coach and the parents. These three have more say over a players safety. The coach and parents decide how a girl plays within the rules. The association sets the rules for player safety. The ump enforces those rules.

Again it was stupid for the coaches and parents to let this girl or any girl pitch without a mask but this ump was off base. (sorry OP)

 

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It's kind of a "maybe this is none of my business, but I just can't sit idly by and let this happen," type of situation.

That hits the nail on the head. At least for me.

 

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OnTheBucket:

You haven't said anything since your original post. Now that you've had your decision dissected to the Nth degree, would you change anything? I'd like to hear something from the OP.

 

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Sammy, I would not have posted what I said if it wasn't for the rec and travel ball thread. Rec is definitely not a level playing field. I think that is why the Portgage OGSO tried to do what it did, to make it level.

 

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I say NEVER condemn an umpire for protecting the safety of a player. It might just be your kid that gets saved from an accident. I say shame on the organization for not addressing the situation before the game ever started and putting the umpire in a this type of situation. The umpire has to protect himself also from liablity and the organization put him in a no win situation. That being said here is the perfect opportunity for this organization and others to put rules in place that make it fair for all. Safety is always #1...