Umpiring questions

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These came up over the weekend and everyone had different opinions... Middle School game with HS rules...

1. Runner walks, gets to 1st, slows but doesn't stop completely and then runs towards 2nd about a third of the way when she realized there is a runner occupying 2nd (and 3rd) - all of this occurred while the pitcher has the ball in the circle and she does not make any attempt to throw her out. Runner then walks back to 1st. Is runner out under the look back rule?

2. Pitcher starts her pitch standing sideways, right foot on rubber, left foot about 18" from rubber towards home plate, she is facing 3rd. The ball is in her right hand and in the air, like an X. (This is like the warm up that most pitchers do.) She then pitches the ball from that position, no rotation of the arm, just straight down and throws. Is this legal?

3. Batter hit by pitch that bounced before hitting her. One inning the batter was sent back from first (our team) another inning (their team) was awarded the base.

And a side note, the strike zone during this game was from about the waist area to way below the knees. One actually bounced right behind the plate it was so low, but it was a strike.

Thanks for the help.

 

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OK I'll try it....

1- As long as she immediately went back to first after stopping and didn't stop to think which way to go. You have a split second to make up mind to do so after coming to stop. The fallacy is that people think once she is on way to second, she must continue.

2-Both feet need to start touching the pitching plate

3- Dead ball runner gets first, as long as an attempt was made to move out of the way of the pitch.

 

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1. No she is not out. Under the scenerio given, she is allowed to stop and immediatedly return to the base NO MATTER HOW SLOWLY.

2. Illegal - left foot must be either on the pitcher's plate or behind (high school rules). Secondly, ball must be in the glove, or touch the glove, at least one second after taking, or simulating the taking, of signs from the catcher.

3. Depends on if the batter made a reasonable attempt, in the umpire's opinion, to avoid the pitch. It doesn't matter if the ball skipped in the dirt prior to the pitch hitting her.

How'd I do Bretman?

 

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OK I'll try it....

1- As long as she immediately went back to first after stopping and didn't stop to think which way to go. You have a split second to make up mind to do so after coming to stop. The fallacy is that people think once she is on way to second, she must continue.

2-Both feet need to start touching the pitching plate
3- Dead ball runner gets first, as long as an attempt was made to move out of the way of the pitch.

2. - Not in High School.

 

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1. She did stop for a second because she looked surprised to see that 2nd was occupied, she definitely had decided that was where she was going until she saw the other player. This is what was confusing.

2. Doesn't HS rules allow the pitcher to have a foot off the rubber? I'm familiar with ASA and NSA, but not high school. I've heard you can have one foot off the rubber. What about the half rotation, no windmill - is this what they call "sling shot"?

3. Yes she jumped but it still got her.

 

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THx Bucket! That's why I said I'll try

 

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1) As described, doesn't sound like a Look Back Rule violation. The runner is allowed to round the base, stop once, then must immediately either advance or retreat directly to the next base, without stopping or reversing direction a second time. It doesn't seem like the runner violated any of those requirements.

If she stopped and stood still longer than a second or two between first and second, then she would be out. Since you said she "stopped for a second", that is legal.

The Look Back Rule doesn't address the speed at which a runner can advance or retreat. She can hustle back, or she can leisurely stroll back- so long as she is actually moving one way or the other when she need to.

2) Illegal pitch for a couple of reasons.

High school rules require the pitcher to start out facing the batter. The rule actually says "with shoulders in-line with first and third base".

For high school, the pivot foot must start out contacting the pitcher's plate and the free foot can be touching it, or behind it, not off the plate and in front of it.

The rules also require the hands to be brought together before delivering the pitch, which it doesn't sound like this pitcher was doing.

While her starting position was illegal, the actual pitching motion she used wasn't. There is no rule requiring a full wind-up or revolution of the arm. A pitcher can simply bring the ball behind her, then swing the arm forward- so long as she has met all the other requirements of the pitching rule, which this pitcher did not.

3) A pitch is a pitch is a pitch. It doesn't matter if it bounced before reaching the batter or the plate. It is treated exactly the same as any other pitch (with one exception).

The ball is live and can be batted into play, swung at and missed for a strike, or even result in a hit batter. All of the same hit batter rules apply whether the pitch hit the ground first or not (batter cannot purposely allow herself to be hit, if she's hit while swinging it's a strike, if she's hit in the strike zone it's a strike, etc., and if she's unavoidably hit she is awarded first base).

The lone exception is that a bounced pitch which subsequently passes through the strike zone, but is not swung at, can NEVER be a called strike. For a called strike, the ball must pass through the strike zone "in-flight". Once the pitch touches the ground, it is no longer considered to be "in-flight".

 

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THanks so much for the responses.

I also have another I forgot about.

When a runner gets a lead off and the pitcher or catcher throws the ball to that base, does the runner have to be tagged or does the throw just have to beat her back in order for her to be called out?

I have always had an out called if the throw was there before the runner gets back, but someone said otherwise recently.

 

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THanks so much for the responses.

I also have another I forgot about.

When a runner gets a lead off and the pitcher or catcher throws the ball to that base, does the runner have to be tagged or does the throw just have to beat her back in order for her to be called out?

I have always had an out called if the throw was there before the runner gets back, but someone said otherwise recently.

If it's a lead-off, she definitely has to be tagged to be out. It is not a force.

 

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Athens always did have those crazy rec rules they went by down there...including the one where the throw beating the runner back to the bag was a OUT based on their rec rules. Friend of mine's kid plays down there..LOL He said he about got thrown out of the park when they called his kid out in that situation....LOL

 

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The rec ball league does have some strange rules down here, but thankfully, we're not in that anymore. I have actually seen this though in tournament play, ASA and NSA sanctioned events.

I have my girls tag as well but there have been several times, that I don't think the tag was made in time and they still called her out.

Thanks!!!

 

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That they do in the rec stuff in Athens. My friend is a real quiet type and I guess, according to his wife, went off the deep end...LOL when there was no tag on a throw back. You'd have to know him... real quiet guy.. to know how funny that was !!!

Heard tell, there is nothing but rec in southeastern Ohio down that way. I know they run some rec events out of Athens.. but I have never seen a travel tournament ever posted for Athens. Always wondered why?

 

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Following a lead off, it's got to be a tag of the runner to get the out...under all standard baseball and softball rules.

I have heard of a slow pitch league that had a rule like this (again, it was a special league rule, not a standard rule), but never a fastpitch league. They let runners lead off before a pitch, but they would be out if the ball was thrown down and the base tagged before they got back.

 

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Fastpitch just got started here about 4 years ago. The first 2 years I was involved but got tired of the male dominance issue that the board had - FP was part of the baseball league. We ran 2 tourneys which had some rec teams and travel teams. The second one was a huge success, but after the BB league took the money we decided we were out of it. So the last 2 they've had down here were ran by someone else and haven't been as good.

Anyway, yes I probably know your friend. Send me his name in an IM. I'm sure he probably knows of me. I'm pretty well known here.

Most of the surrounding counties do not have a summer fastpitch league. We now only go to tournaments, right after MS season is over.

 

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The problem I saw in Athens area is the fact that the person you was talking about had what I call "mixed" tournaments. Some rec and some travel teams and the rec teams got clobbered and the travel teams got bored... which is usually the case. And after that, it's all downhill from there. Neither wants to come back.

Have fun traveling this year Bulldog coach. Few good tournaments near you in Wheeling and Parkersburg as well.

 

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Go to this link for one in Wheeling. Your team should be in it...

http://www.game-ex.com/vb3/showthread.php?t=21068