Where do we draw the line or is there no line?

[default]

Recently there have been several threads relating to the topic of players leaving one team for another, even though they had practiced for several months and verbally committed to a team. ?Having witnessed this event and even commented on this forum regarding this situation, I am left wondering, where do we draw the line? ?Is a player committed only after the family has invested enough money in the team that they can't walk away?

On the coaching side of this, our team played in two scrimmages over the holiday break. ?After the second scrimmage, the opposing coach contacted one of our players to play for him. ?This even though she had practiced for several months with our team. My question is how can anyone schedule a preseason scrimmage to test and improve their team's skills, when it means that the other team is scouting for their players? ?Granted, the player can always turn the offer down. ?It just seems wrong to me to approach a player who is obviously on another team. ?Is this common practice?

Again, where do we draw the line, or is there no line?

 

[default]

Having witnessed this first hand, I have to comment that is unfair to assume that a team is only scheduling scrimmages to scout other teams for players. We all know that the basis for a scimmage is to get practice, find out where your players can be best utilized, and to get some actual "game" play in. Like I said, it is unfair to assume that someone is scouting. And, I believe that ultimately, the decision is the parents' decision and player's decision as to where she would like to play.

 

[default]

What can you do? I agree it is wrong on both sides but that is how some people do things they care only about themselves. In our organization if you quit a team once you will do it again. So we frown on letting a player back in our organization on any team. But as far as them leaving there really isnt anyway to stop it since "The grass is always greener" on the other side. I have been fortunate to never have had this happen although opposing coaches have contacted my players and parents during scrimmages before. I will not mention any names about that though. The way I look at it I do the best job I can coaching and getting my kids and parents to gel together but if they decide to leave then it wasnt a "good fit" anyway. You probably better off finding it out now than mid season.

 

[default]

softballmom, I think you may have missed the point. The question is, is it acceptable practice to approach opposing team players? I for one, think it is classless. Approach a player at the end of season, and say "hey, we'd like for you to come out to our tryouts", but during the season a player should be off limits. Unfortunately, for some, it's win at all cost and any player is expendable for the next great one. This topic has been discussed before and unfortunately it is a practice used by some. What will be next, signing bonuses?

 

[default]

I have a solution to this problem-- maybe the coaches need to request the entire team fee up front before practices begin in order to "lock in" the player. If the player decides to go, their money will be non-refundable. In addition, maybe a security deposit should be asked from each player (refundable at the end of the season if they complete the entire season). This could be expensive, but you find money for the things you really want.

 

[default]

I didn't miss the point - I was expressing an opinion. Here is a thought, maybe the player wasn't happy and approached the coach. Should a coach turn down a player that is making theirselves "available" to other teams? And, is it an acceptable practice to comment on harming a player during the season because they decided to leave the team? I don't think so. If you want to talk about classless.... Personally, I think you should give it a rest. BOTTOM LINE, IT IS THE PLAYER'S DECISION.

 

[default]

The way for teams to stop it is to get everyone to sign the ASA or whatever organization's roster as early as possible. At that point, a player can't leave without that coach's permission. How many of us have had our teams sign our 2008 ASA roster? The way for parents to stop it is to never take those coaches up on their offers.

Although I agree that it is wrong for other teams to approach players trying to get them to switch teams, I also realize those coaches aren't going to change their ways. They justify it by saying that they are offering the player a better opportunity to do what is best for her. It isn't about their team getting better, they simply want to help that player. Somehow, their altruism only extends to helping the best players. And parents often fall for a pitch from this type of coach. If they would just be honest and say something like, "I want you to quit the team you agreed to play with and join my team solely because you are a good player and will make my team better, which will make the season more fun for my players and me." If a coach would say that instead of trying to run some b.s. out there, you could at least know you're dealing with an honest person.

 

[default]

First off, It is a good topic to discuss because of all the differant opinoins and personalitys of everone one on OFC and not knowing most of you it even makes it it better. I think JoeA makes a good point if they sign an official asa roster they can not leave unless a coach releases them, so as a coach do you let them go? I know I would not want a player on my team they may not want to be there. I know that it is the players decision at the end in most cases but unfortunatly this will NEVER change. As Coaches want to WIN AT ALL COST and Parents want to get there kids exposed to College`s ONLY PLAYING FOR THE "ELITE" teams and Players wanting to either PLAY with there friends or just jump ship just because they can. I think this is a problem that will just get worse as the sport blooms in to a GREAT sport, How can we stop it ...IMHO we as coaches and parents need to realize....IT IS ALL ABOUT THE KIDS.....

 

[default]

softballmom14oh
Lil sensitive there. No names in original post dont be paranoid. I think if people leave names out it will be fine. To get suggestions on people stealing players. I understand it take two, maybe if there is a problem if the parents would just be honest and go to there coach and tell them they are leaving and why there wouldn't be any hard feelings Ya right.

 

[default]

How about once they are registered with a team via ASA or NSA or any other sanctioning body. If you decide to leave after that point without Coach's consent, then you must sit out a year like they do in high school sports. That would cut down on this quite a bit! I understand that in certain circumstances if it is mutually agreed upon between parents, players and coach due to hardship or non compatability it could be the best thing. But whats happening here is A COACH WITH ABSOLUTLY NO ETHICS IS BREAKING THE "UNWRITTEN LAWS" to benefit himself with no regards to anyone else.

 

[default]

The reality is... its been this way a long time. ?When we were first starting out 12 years ago I felt like a farm team for outstanding programs. ?Every time we would work and train a girl to the point of being top level, they would be courted by every program out there. ?After a few years we realized that it was just gonna be that way til we had a team that understood commitment with the right girls, the right parents, ... and ultimately won the right tournaments. ?The way we were gonna win was to TEACH them how to be great. ?I noticed too that the players that left were soon with another team still searching. ?

Just like back then - If a player wants to leave we let them go, hold no grudges and try very hard to maintain the same level of class we always have. ?

Programs that "take" girls away, generally aren't willing to teach girls to play. ?Find a program that teaches and you'll find that players stay. ?

edited after Bear's suggestion

 

[default]

Good topic as long as we keep names (and hints at names) out of it.

 

[default]

It seems many parents are missing a golden oppurtunity to teach a life lesson to their DD's. Sports are a wonderful thing, two of the many things it teaches is teamwork and commitment. I believe as a parent once my DD commits to a team for that year, its just that a commitment. I really put most of the team jumping on the parents. As to how to stop it, I have no idea, but, if a kid has played on 4 teams in 4 years, she probably isnt commited to any team, just herself.
BTW, not a coach, just a parent.

 

[default]

Best said by David_Beckman. ?If we are going to blame anyone blame the thieving coaches and...



Name removed - TheBearMay

 

[default]

On our team we make it really simple. ?You sign the roster. ?If you decide to leave the team for another team, you will be released once you are paid in full. ?This money is then applied to the player fees of the remaining players. ?Fortunately, we have never had to do this.

 

[default]

It is a sensitive subject simply because it seems that the coaches get blamed even if they aren't scouting the players. I certainly don't believe in coaches scouting players during scrimmages, but in this case, the coach did not approach the player; however, the coach is still being blamed for the girl jumping teams.

In general, this board is true with regard to the subject of commitment from players. We were with a team for three years and for about 1 1/2 were generally unhappy with the coaching style. However, we didn't jump ship half way through the year when we weren't happy with the situation and in fact, went back to the team the following year because our DD wanted to play with the girls that she had befriended and played with for two years prior to that. The decision was hers and she wanted to stick, so we did. Even though we were unhappy with the coaching, it was our DD's decision and we kept our mouths shut. During that time, we had coaches approach us about our DD but we had made a commitment and not only would have felt bad for sticking it to the coach, but even more so, the girls that she played with for so long. Once the season was over our final year, our DD was old enough to realize that she wasn't getting the coaching and discipline that she needed and decided it was time to leave since she was truly ready to dedicate herself to the sport.

 

[default]

1st post..... ?After the second scrimmage, the opposing coach contacted one of our players to play for him. 15th post... ? ? but in this case, the coach did not approach the player; however, the coach is still being blamed for the girl jumping teams. ?
?
So which one happend... :-? :-? :-? not that it matters to me but......... :'(

 

[default]

I didn't miss the point - I was expressing an opinion. ?Here is a thought, maybe the player wasn't happy and approached the coach. Should a coach turn down a player that is making theirselves "available" to other teams? ?And, is it an acceptable practice to comment on harming a player during the season because they decided to leave the team? ?I don't think so. If you want to talk about classless.... ?Personally, I think you should give it a rest. ?BOTTOM LINE, IT IS THE PLAYER'S DECISION.

Players decision or not, it doesnt make it anymore acceptable or ethical to approach players on another team. :

 

[default]

Hitter23 is right. Whenever we have these discussions, it always ends up with people saying if the player wants to leave, then let her go. That's fine and I agree, but the original issue is the matter of coaches approaching players trying to get them to leave their current teams.

The fact that a player might end up leaving does not justify the coach making a move on the player in the first place.

 

[default]

There are definately coaches out there who will stop nothing short of taking players who have committed to other teams without a second thought. I know of one who has done everything from trash talking other teams and coaches to making promises of guaranteed playing time and starting positions along with promising parents coaching postions. If that is what it takes to get a team these days it's not worth it and if a kid and their parents take the offer under those circumstances they are setting themselves up for failure.....and coaches who do this give themselves a bad reputation and are known in the softball community as crooked,& conniving.

What comes around goes around so the coaches out there doing this........THINK 1ST