Guidelines...Enforcement Responsibilites

Discussion in 'General Softball Discussions' started by yocoach, May 16, 2020.

  1. yocoach

    yocoach Super Moderator Staff Member

    So now that we have our Mandatory and Suggested Best Practices Guidelines for tournaments, I, like many others on here can see a plethora of problems. That said, my main concern is who's going to be responsible for enforcing them? Is it the umpire's responsibility to make sure everyone in the dugout is masked up? There are no rules in the rulebook about it. Are you going to have a 1 per field volunteer walking around trying to enforce these? What legal authority do they have? Are we calling the police every time we see someone in violation? Is the carrot going to be you get to play and the stick, if you don't follow the guidelines the TD removes your team from the tournament? I'd bet the TD would lose at least a third of the teams signing up for his next one...at least those in support of the supposed violators. So how are we going to handle the enforcement of these?
     
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  2. DanMaz

    DanMaz Super Moderator Staff Member

    ohhhhh boy... and all we wanted was to play ball!!!!! this is going to be trouble.
     
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  3. DanMaz

    DanMaz Super Moderator Staff Member

    i can see warren walkin around with a mega phone!! "PLEASE WEAR A MASK OR BE REMOVED FROM THE FIELDS" "PLEASE WEAR A MASK OR YOU WILL BE SUBJECT TO REMOVAL" "THIS IS NOT A TEST!"

    or maybe a representative at each field with a clipboard and phone taking pictures of you to install fear to the non mask wearers... and post your pic on facebook! lol smh
     
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  4. Briguy6913

    Briguy6913 New Member

    Every tournament has to notify the local health dept of such event, I would believe they will be stopping in as they have many business in our area and have reclosed some, and also this has to fall on the TD. I just cant see how tournaments can do these things, with the ball sanitizing and such , I believe these rules were designed for more of a rec league in mind where they play only a couple games a week in the evening. Smh
     
  5. Robert Reiter

    Robert Reiter New Member

    The defensive team uses it's own ball each time out on the field. I don't believe that the ball must be sanitized except when it comes in to the dugout. The real trick will be the dugout to require masks and social distancing. I haven't seen a dugout where players can pass or sit 6' apart.

    As far as the penalty, if it's enforced, is a second degree misdemeanor: up to 90 days jail and/or a$750 fine
     
  6. Dwheeler83

    Dwheeler83 Member

    First thing the responsibility falls on the coach. If you want to play you are responsible for you kids. Second there is no cop going to fine you or give you a misdemeanor because quite frankly it’s unconstitutional, third no shit it’s not in the rule book this is call a mandatory directive rule books were printed in January! If you don’t want to play don’t if you do want to play follow the damn guidelines or leave the park. Tournament directors have enough to worry about!
     
  7. daboss

    daboss Well-Known Member

    People, your lives as you know it have changed. We cannot have a do-over. It's not your fault but just like most everything else in life it will only take a few to ruin it for everyone.

    Work the problem. If you want this to happen, follow the new rules. If you don't like it, don't play. Protest on here, not at the park. If you get caught not conforming to the rules the results will be no tourneys will be permitted in the future. At the park will not be the place to be a rebel. Youth sports in general could be in jeopardy. It may seem dramatic but it will happen.

    Food for thought.........
     
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  8. badmonkeys

    badmonkeys New Member

    I've only read the state guidelines, not any individual sanctioning body guidelines. So don't know what they address. Obviously doesn't matter for a non sanctioned tourney.
    Curious though, the state guidelines did not appear to make any recommendations about creating more space for everyone. Space at many facilities is at a premium especially after wet weather.
    Are any TD's going to limit or reduce the number of teams participating? Limit pregame warm up times or locations? Create some guidelines for pregame jogging or running near spectators? Space the games so there are gaps so you don't have two teams finishing a game and two more crowding the field waiting with all 4 team's parents?
     
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  9. daboss

    daboss Well-Known Member

    Actually badmonkeys, all your question have been addressed or at minimum are being considered. You'll find the concerns and answers in this thread and other like threads here in OFC. Decisions by TD's will be how things need to be and I'm sure some will need to make adjustments in the moment while trying to conform. My suggestion would be to be ready for anything and everything and be sure to share this attitude with all around you or TD's will make the ultimate and easiest decision and that will be to not play.

    The State will see to it.
     
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  10. BretMan2

    BretMan2 TSZ/OFC Umpire in Chief

    As I see it, and as an umpire, I’m there to enforce the playing rules of the game. That is my sole responsibility and authority. I’m not a police officer, I’m not a health department official, and I’m not your parent. Those other figures can address their own adherence to social policies for which I have no responsibility.
     
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  11. PaulP

    PaulP Member

    Coach’s job just got harder, but that’s where buck stops.

    Teams should make contingency plans if a player or parent has symptoms or gets coved-19. Enough posts have debated how deadly this virus is, but hopefully we can agree that it’s contagious. It’s worth the effort to adhere to social distancing when the girls are not playing on the field. No one wants to tell a team they are going home from a tournament early or that their season is over because players got sick or need to quarantine.
     
  12. Rken15

    Rken15 Member

    Just curious. Has your organization started discussing how the coach and organization as a whole will be protected in terms of lawsuits?

    The unfortunate reality is that someone will get sick and point the finger.
     
  13. DanMaz

    DanMaz Super Moderator Staff Member

    i am no lawyer... but 1st everyone will be signing waivers for this but also there is no way to prove anyone got covid19 from any specific place or person or anything. I heard a lawyer say this. has anyone ever been sued because they caught the flu from you? or caught the flu from playing at your tourney or eating at your restaurant? covid is similar... flu like virus. Noway will any lawyer be able to prove someone caught covid from playing openly in any event or public area especially with a signed waiver
     
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  14. OHsoftball

    OHsoftball Active Member

    If umpires are required to wear masks, we might as well all go out of state to play this summer! I can live with and abide by every other rule but this one concerns me. This is a bigger health risk than the corona virus! Unless this gets changed, I say tourneys won’t have any umps. This rule needs to be appealed somehow.

    If I was an ump, I would put a piece of cloth over my face mask and call it good. Anyone with any medical knowledge would know that this rule is absurd.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2020
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  15. PaulP

    PaulP Member

    Half the people I see with masks on have it below their nose. Expect many umps will do the same, which I’m fine with. Biggest possible risk would be from droplets when umps yell, which maybe would be reduced if their mouth was covered? This whole thing is a mess, but we need to find a way to make it work, at least for appearance sakes.
     
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  16. Icemike

    Icemike New Member

    I am not so sure that the guidelines aren’t for rec style leagues and games. When you apply them to tournaments with the number of teams in one place, restroom situations etc... they get tricky.
     
  17. daboss

    daboss Well-Known Member

    I get what you are saying DanMaz and agree but I believe the issues being addressed in the question deals with a possible lawsuit for negligence. With the Health Dept. making regulations that deal with sanitizing, wearing masks, number of people in restrooms, and a host of other rules, could tournament directors become liable if things are not enforced to the fullest?

    I wrote in a thread the need for everyone to conform and the ballpark is not the place to be a rebel. I mean this wholeheartedly because it could possibly only take one for a TD to lose access to facilities or worse yet, have the facilities as a whole shut down from use.
     
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  18. DanMaz

    DanMaz Super Moderator Staff Member

    agree boss. one bad apple can ruin the whole bunch! i guess we need a dummies guide here to post.

    let me start... add if you have any other questions. keep them simple.

    1) do parents need to wear mask when watching? yes or no
    2) do parents, players coaches any humans need to wear masks when walking around the park? yes or no
    3) do coaches need to wear on the field? yes or no
    4) do players need to wear masks when playing or warming up? yes or no
    5) Do players need to wear a mask in the bench area if 6' distancing cant be accomplished? yes or no?
    6) will the umps (field and plate) be required to wear a mask during games?
    7) does each team keep track of their own softballs through out the games? separate balls for each team.
    8) will TD's provide hand sanitizer at all fields and all bench areas?
    9) will gate fees go up to cover these extra costs?
    10) will the ump be required to "hold the law" of the fields... see a coach with no mask / does the ump have the right or does he even want to be the guy to "police" the people?
    11) will umps use hand signals now more instead of yelling? silent games?
    12) are games going to be shorter because the umps might pass out with the lack of oxygen?

    please feel free to answer these and add more......
     
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  19. Belk8

    Belk8 Member

    Umps can probably drop the mask down in between innings to take in some fresh air since they're not over the catcher.
    Just a thought.
     
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  20. 22dad

    22dad Member

    See all the mask touching is the worst thing you can do. That is why it's better not to wear one
     
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