Kudos NCAA Rule enforcement

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Watching the softball on TV this weekend, it's about time they started calling illegal pitches! hearing the announcers state "these kids have been doing their motion forever and to tell them it's illegal now is tough" TOO BAD! if they were taught to throw illegal all these years, bottom line is IT'S ILLEGAL!! Must have been 18 in two games.

For those coaches who continue to knowingly teach kids these techniques, the days are short for calls not being made. It gives pitchers an advantage and finally they are taking steps to stop it.

For parents whos young ones are pitchers, make sure you know what is and what isn't an illegal pitch if your DD wants to be a long term pitcher.....

OK OHSAA, ASA umps, your turn to enforce it as well... Don't call it once a game and forget it, call it every time you see it!

Heck there was one pitcher last year who would bury the rubber each inning after the ump cleaned it, so the umps couldn't tell where the pitching lane was, because they couldn't see the ends of the rubber........

 

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I have noticed the same in D3 games as well. Apparently the "point of emphasis" is actually being emphasized. Even got my kid twice. (Took too much time to pitch and took signs from off the rubber.) I've seen leaping and stepping outside the 24 called several times on several different pitchers.

 

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Even got my kid twice. (Took too much time to pitch and took signs from off the rubber.)

When did it become illegal to take signs off the rubber? I was always under the impression that the rule was to emphasize a pause (as if to take a sign) once taking the rubber, to stop quick pitching.

 

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When did it become illegal to take signs off the rubber? I was always under the impression that the rule was to emphasize a pause (as if to take a sign) once taking the rubber, to stop quick pitching.

http://www.ncaapublications.com/p-3...ball-rules-2-year-publication-online-now.aspx

That's the link to the NCAA rules. It's covered under 10.2.1.1. 10.2 Taking the Signal from the Catcher
10.2.1 Before starting a pitch, the pitcher must comply with the following:
10.2.1.1 Both feet must be on the ground in contact with the pitcher?s
plate and a portion of the pivot foot must be on the top surface of
the pitcher?s plate. Both feet must be within the 24-inch length of the
pitcher?s plate. In NFHS, it's rule 6.1 b with similar wording. Violation is an illegal pitch. Maybe bretman can chime in if I interpret that wrong.

Her and the catcher got out of synch and the sign went out before she had stepped up. Ump didn't hesitate to call it and I could tell from where I was watching she was guilty.

On the too much time call, it's NCAA 10.18. I didn't have the stopwatch out, but it was definitely less than 15 seconds, and seemed more like 11. He did it to the other team's pitcher that game too. Perhaps a bit on the nitpicky side, but a rule is a rule. Besides, I am all for calling the rest of it tight, so can't complain if they call it all tight.

 

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You should have kept reading to this point:

10.2.2 While in this position, the pitcher must take (or simulate taking) a signal from the catcher.

There is nothing that says the pitcher can only take a sign on the rubber. This rule is to prevent quick pitching and not govern when signs must be taken.​

 

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I interpret "this position" as refering to the above position, which is with both feet on the ground in contact with the pitcher's plate. Thinking since the ump made that call, his interpretation is the same. He called to the dugout loud enough for me to hear exactly what she was doing that he called. "She took the sign from behind the rubber, not even close!"

 

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Just because an umpire is working an NCAA game, it doesn't necessarily mean they can't misinterpret a rule.

The ASA and high school rule is interpreted just like 3dm stated above. A pitcher can get her signal anywhere she wants to. The only requirement after stepping on the rubber is that she pause, as if taking a signal. She can either be actually getting a signal or simulate getting one. All this requirement really does is force the pitcher to pause long enough to prevent a quick pitch to the batter. She can't step on the rubber and immediately roll right through with the pitch in an attempt to catch the batter off-balance.

Now, I do not officiate college softball (At least, not yet. I have had an offer to start and would need to go through some classes and certification first, so that might be happening someday.) But I don't see anything different about the NCAA rule, or see this listed as a rule difference in any of the umpiring materials I have access to.

 

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Watching the softball on TV this weekend, it's about time they started calling illegal pitches! hearing the announcers state "these kids have been doing their motion forever and to tell them it's illegal now is tough" TOO BAD! if they were taught to throw illegal all these years, bottom line is IT'S ILLEGAL!! Must have been 18 in two games.

For those coaches who continue to knowingly teach kids these techniques, the days are short for calls not being made. It gives pitchers an advantage and finally they are taking steps to stop it.

For parents whos young ones are pitchers, make sure you know what is and what isn't an illegal pitch if your DD wants to be a long term pitcher.....

OK OHSAA, ASA umps, your turn to enforce it as well... Don't call it once a game and forget it, call it every time you see it!

Heck there was one pitcher last year who would bury the rubber each inning after the ump cleaned it, so the umps couldn't tell where the pitching lane was, because they couldn't see the ends of the rubber........

100% agreed. The rules are there for a reason. Too many pitchers are allowed to "slide" for too long and then when they finally get to an umpire that knows what he is looking at, they get hammered with illegal calls and don't understand why.

 

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Jessica Mendoza made a great point today:
Umpires need to start making the call consistently at the younger age levels (10U, 12U) so that these kids know what they are doing is wrong when they are still young enough to correct the problem.
That was a great point, however, the problem is there are too many umpires who won't call it and too many coaches who tell their pitchers not to worry about it unless they call it instead of using it as a teachable moment.
Had one coach last season who HELPED his pitcher build a mound of dirt in front of the rubber so that when she lept off the rubber, her toe drug in the top of the mound of dirt to give the appearance she was dragging that foot instead of correcting her and working with her.
There are a lot more kids who are throwing legally - most likely because it is stressed by their pitching coaches - than illegally.
The problem is umpires who won't call it because as one told our coach last year "it would slow the game down if I called an illegal pitch on her every pitch" or just because they are too lazy to call it.
The other problem is coaches who care more about winning than in helping the girls progress and correct bad habits before they become ingrained into how they do things.
Mendoza is right.... BUT, the coaches and umpires have to do their part to help the girls realize what they are doing wrong and fix it before it is too late.
The chances of both of those happening are slim to none....

 

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So where were these games on TV?

 

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espnu

 

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Sigh, I feel like a contrary PITA but don't really mean to be.

I just don't see the rule written that way. Why would they specifically title the section (10-2) "Taking the Signal from the Catcher", specifically explain how they want it done and not mean what it says? IE Feet must be on the plate etc etc. The very next section 10-2-3 says After receiving the catcher?s signal, the pitcher?s hands must come together in view of the plate umpire for not more than five seconds. Nothing else there, nothing about may step on plate and pause, nothing except pitch after getting the signal. Seems to me if the intent was get your signal anytime you want, just pause for a moment before starting the pitch once you take the initial position, then that is exactly what they would say in the rule.

That's all from the NCAA rulebook in the link I provided above.

NFHS wording while similar is not so specific regarding taking the signal.

I guess I could see in the case of my DD's illegal pitch (it's a reach to my thinking) the ruling being that she failed to pause long enough to get the simulated signal before bringing the hands together. I say simulated since she already had the real signal prior to stepping on the plate. I don't have a great picture in my mind of what exactly happened regarding how long before she pitched after she stepped up, but I do recall seeing her looking in from behind the rubber. That is not what the umpire said when he explained it and there was no argument from the coach beyond asking what she did wrong. Of course they both could be wrong, and include me in the same boat.

On the other hand, I don't see how you could enforce what happens before a pitcher steps on the rubber, as long as she simulates getting a sign from the catcher. So I duuno I do know she was called for an illegal pitch and that was the explanation.

 

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Why was the batter in the box before the pitcher was on the rubber, or why did the pitcher recieve a pitch single before she knew where and how the batter would stand.

 

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NCAA umpires have been getting regular e-mails from their bosses all spring about enforcing the illegal pitch rules. I got this directly from a local guy who works a lot of our games and is the assigner for our games. He works Pac-10, WAC, and other West Coast Div. I conferences and says the directive has been made quite clear to enforce the rules.

We haven't seen it quite as much at Div. III, but he said they are supposed to be calling it, and not just once or twice, but on every single pitch where there is a leap or crow hop.

 

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In DD's last two college games illegal pitches were called very frequently. Sounds like it's spreading.

I agree that it may seem a little overzealous, but it is what it is - illegal pitching! The umpires are just enforcing a rule. It's NOT the umpire's fault, even if the umpires way back in the kid's rec. league didn't call it. I would say it's the pitcher's parents fault for letting someone teach their daughter an illegal pitching habit. A kid who habitually steps outside the lane (they are now chalked in college for visibility), off the rubber, replants, etc. was obviously taught wrong. Not knowing the rules is no excuse.

As a side note, a pitcher can use the "pause" after their hands come together to their advantage to mess with a hitter's timing. A 5 second pause seems like an eternity to an aggressive batter. Varying that pause can be very effective. Many pitchers get caught up in a rhythm and forget about that. A smart pitcher should use "all the tools within the rules"...

 

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I just don't see the rule written that way. Why would they specifically title the section (10-2) "Taking the Signal from the Catcher", specifically explain how they want it done and not mean what it says?

Then again, why would they title the section that way and then, in the actual rule, note that the pitcher can simulate taking a signal? In other words, the section about "taking a signal" says that they don't have to take a signal!

This is a problem with many rule books. You can't always use the literal wording of what is printed. Sometimes you have to understand the spirit, intent and interpretation of what they really mean.

Something else to consider: It's been my experience that whenever an organization heavily stresses a point of emphasis- as the NCAA has done this year with illegal pitching- that often it leads to over-officiating of the rule. Umpires, eager to please their assigners and higher-ups, will go looking for things that aren't there to find.

ASA and high school has interpreted this point and made it clear a pitcher can get her signal before stepping on the plate, so long as she pauses once stepping on it. I don't see anything in the NCAA rule that would make me think it's any different. But that doesn't necessarily mean that they haven't issued directives to their umpires to call it otherwise.

I'm going to shoot off an email to some of the guys I know that work college ball and see if they have something different.

 

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I should know better after working for the government. They write directives all the time that seem simple on the surface and then proceed to write 1000 pages on how to interpret the one page directive.

Curious as to what if anything they have been told about this particular section.

 

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I'm looking at it this way: The rule only covers what the pitcher must do once she is in contact with the pitcher's plate. She can take a signal or simply pause as if she was. The rule doesn't say what she can or can't do before she engages the plate.

I'll let you know if I find out anything different.

 

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I caught the Florida - Alabama game in rerun last night. I thought it was hilarious how the girl was called on a leap several times that was a zerox copy of some that have been posted from you tube on threads here recently. What made it really funny was that Jessica Mendoza said "that is an obvious leap, I can see it all the way up here." ...good job Jessica!

 

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You should have kept reading to this point:

10.2.2 While in this position, the pitcher must take (or simulate taking) a signal from the catcher.

There is nothing that says the pitcher can only take a sign on the rubber. This rule is to prevent quick pitching and not govern when signs must be taken.​

Lol.....looks like we're gonna get into a bretman fight till the end on this one aren't we? Sorry bret, couldn't resist

You can't take a sign off of the pitching plate......period, end of story. I think sometimes you guys get too hung up on what isn't stated rather than what is stated. Then take what isn't stated and put your own spin on it. "Pitcher MUST take (or simulate taking) a signal." Must is a definative, so yes it does govern when signs MUST be taken.