Question to ALL Tournament Directors

Discussion in 'General Softball Discussions' started by Passion4theGame, Apr 2, 2020.

  1. oiler_pride

    oiler_pride Active Member

    I sent this out today to all 48 teams that were registered and Paid for the 12th annual Y-Town Mayhem April 24-26th .


    I have decided to cancel the April 24-26th Y-Town Mayhem and Reschedule it for July 24-26th. Your team will have the option to be transferred into the July tournament at no additional cost or you can decide to have a FULL REFUND sent back to you.

    The July Y-Town Mayhem will be the same format as the original.

    If you elect to have a refund, make sure to send who to make check out to and the address to send it back.

    Jeff Steiner
    Thunder Elite-President
  2. Richard Smith

    Richard Smith Active Member

    I wear many hats in the softball world. I am an assistant coach, and the team treasurer for the Ohio Storm 08, I understand coaches and teams point of view when it comes to a team's budget and money refunds for tournaments that are cancelled. For our team, I write the checks for all equipment purchases, schedule fundraisers, schedule tournaments, schedule and obtain room blocks for tournaments and Nationals for stay to play events, schedule and coordinate outside practice fields and our winter indoor practice facility, schedule and coordinate ordering trading pins for the Organization, schedule and organize multiple team's banner photos, along with a host of other duties. With that being said, there are several things I look at and READ when deciding on what tournaments to enter. (1) Refund policy, (2) Cut off date to enter, (3) GG, (4) Cost, (5 ) Location. By reading the refund policy, I understand what the risk is before I even register. I also know that, if I cancel for any reason before the cutoff date, most generally I will get a full refund. The refund policy generally states if a team cancels after the cutoff date, or if the tournament is cancelled for any unforeseen circumstance, I risk losing a portion of my registration fee. Some tournaments don't issue refunds for any reason if the event gets cancelled, or some require a non-refundable deposit months before the tournament date, but again I know this upfront before I register and send money. So, if I take that risk and lose money, that's on me because I knew the risk upfront. I have no reason to complain and can blame myself, certainly I will not complain or blame about a TD's decision to enforce his/her policy. Our team is scheduled for 3 tournaments in May, so I have 2 choices. (1) I can sit around and wait after the cutoff date to see if the TD is going to cancel the tournament because of this virus, risk losing money, or (2) I can simply pull our team out of the tournaments before the cutoff date and look for other tournaments in June or July. Those decisions fall on me, but either way I know the risk, because I read the refund policy. (If there is no cutoff date or refund policy posted, simply ask the TD what it is.)

    As for our team player fees. If the season is cancelled, we will sit down with our parents and make the decision on player fees as a team. Just remember, the season started for most travel teams back in September, so most teams are 8 1/2 months into the season.

    I have been the tournament director for the Pavilion Sports & Events Complex in Mt.Vernon Ohio for the past 2 years, so I also understand the TD side of softball. There are upfront costs associated with tournaments, more so with outdoor tournaments, than indoor tournaments. We also have a refund policy, which we had to cancel our last indoor tournament, on Saturday March 14th, because of this pandemic. The refund policy stated on the USA site, that if the tournament was cancelled for any unforeseen circumstances after the cutoff date, teams would receive a refund of their entry fee minus an administrative fee. This tournament was cancelled on Friday March 13th, 1 day before the tournament, because Dewine issued a ban on indoor events, which is an unforeseen circumstance. The Pavilion could have certainly enforced the refund policy, but the owner and I agreed, that the cancellation was a matter of the health and safety for all attending the event, and decided to issue full refunds to teams and not enforce the refund policy.

    During this time of uncertainty, the health, safety and welfare of all TD's, coaches, players and family is the most important thing. Not only is it the responsibility of the TD to make the decision whether to host a tournament in the future during this time, but coaches are just as responsible for deciding whether to play in a tournament or not. The TD has the responsibility of posting his/her refund policy, but coaches are just as responsible for knowing what that refund policy says, whether it's a rainout, lightning storm, snow storm or any unforeseen circumstance.

    Stay healthy, stay safe, be patient, and we will all live to play another day.
  3. wellbuckit

    wellbuckit Member

    I'm sorry but I don't agree with any of those expenses and why teams need to cover the cost for you. Those are ALL business expenses that come at a loss. Plus i'm guess the guarantee is only for the players that stay on a team or a team that stays together. Don't get me wrong I feel bad for all of the small business going through this but these teams should't be the ones to cover your bill.
    her mom, DanMaz, RedsDad and 5 others like this.
  4. SoftballBomb

    SoftballBomb Member

    I’m sure everyone feel bad and sorry for the current situation we’re facing. All businesses have expensive its part of doing business. It’s not right to past your expenses to teams, players or parents when you didn’t deliver any goods or services.
  5. So my clandestine sources have told me that the city of Columbus is shutting down Berliner Park along with other city parks thru at least mid-June. I have not been able to confirm with CRPD since I am just a fall renter this season. Not sure if that will cause a large mid-June event that already sent schedules to have to cancel or not.

    This is one of the few summers that I do not have an event scheduled there. We usually always scheduled there in early spring or in the fall because the turf was almost a guarantee of playing (unless a monsoon or lightning issue which we won't continue play in). During the summer, they won't talk to you unless you have a 100+ team event that you can move down there. Plus we like the complexes in the burbs because we have good relationships with the youth or high school boosters at those complexes.

    Curious to hear what the "administrative fees" for these late May and early June cancels are going to be? And the justification of taking admin fees when there are simply no expenses to be incurred on an event that has been canceled for over 45 days.

    Whatever they are, maybe USSSA has taken the wrong approach to this and should be making $10-25K for NOT running events. At least teams would flock back to our events like they seem to do to these ones with the ridiculous refund policies?

    Someone enlighten me as to where we are missing the boat here and why teams do not flock back to us for taking no admin fee and giving full refunds if asked?
    TheSoftballZone likes this.
  6. PaulP

    PaulP Member

    It will be interesting to see what the tournaments run by the bigger club teams do. Hopefully, they won’t be shortsighted and keep an unfair portion of the registration fees for themselves to offset their player fees.
    keith likes this.
  7. SonicMojo

    SonicMojo Active Member

    One word: Ghost
  8. Nice to know. Well the original won't be approved ever so good luck with them.
  9. SonicMojo

    SonicMojo Active Member

    It's not a concern for our family, but I really do think that's one big reason people don't do USSSA. Not trying to hassle you or complain. Just my opinion of one of your challenges. It will be less and less of an issue as more time passes and there are fewer of those bats out there.
  10. Sonic, I think it is less of an issue than you may realize. In our USA Elite program which follows the same equipment standards as USSSA since they are a program under the USSSA umbrella, several high end teams play them without using the original Ghost. Teams like the OC Bat Busters (the original ones in So Cal), The original Firecrackers (Tony Rico's high end teams), Texas Glory (Kevin Shelton's groups) and plenty of the Midwest teams like Tulsa Elite come to mind as regular participants in USA Elite (USSSA).

    Personally I think the new dual stamp white Ghost is on par with the original in terms of performance or close behind.

    Also the reason the original will never be approved is because under the 1.2 bpf system that groups like USSSA, NSA, ISA, and some other groups follow, there is compression tester that is used to determine if a bat meets the protocol. The norm to meet is 225 psi or higher. The original Ghost is in the 165-185 range. These are where doctored slow pitch bats tend to fall if they ave had the walls shaven out and the end cap put back on. I sat in our general fast-pitch meeting the first fall after that bat was released and listened to USSSA's general council state that bat will never be approved for use in USSSA ever.

    Now you would never get me to swear to this in a court of law but my belief is that when Easton released that bat it was shortly before USA Nationals. USA uses a much softer compression ball in their true National. This bat was made to flex harder to give some performance with that softer ball. Also a couple of high end showcase groups like PGF and Triple Crown use the USA Softball specs as there own meaning if it is legal in USA, it is legal for them. Sort of a perfect storm for Easton to have that bat look even better for players.

    The kicker is one of those groups likes to use Sterling balls which are hot maybe slightly hotter than Dudley (which is one of the best balls on the market). Most USSSA tournaments use a Dudley or Bow Net ball with harder specs. Now you can see why that particular Ghost could be very dangerous in our events.

    As much as we would like to go after higher end teams in events, it can't be at that price. Take it from an old slow-pitch pitcher who has plenty of battle scars on his shins playing just locally, it stink to get nailed in the leg with a line drive you never see. That was always a fear of mine running slow-pitch and that someday some poor guy out having some fun on the weekend blowing off steam with his buddies could get his teeth rammed down his throat on a line drive back up the box or heaven forbid something worse happening.

    We have got to play soon as I shouldn't have this much time to tell novels on the OFC message board. :)
    SonicMojo likes this.
  11. Terry thank you for the response. We've always had a great experience at your tournaments. They're always exceptionally well ran and the venue is great for hosting. I know there's financial incentive to what you do hosting tournaments, but I know it's nice to get compliments even when it's your job. Running tournaments are a lot of work and I'm sure can be a thankless job at times. From the bottom of my heart thank you for giving all of these girls the opportunity to compete and play the game they love!
    Last edited: May 11, 2020
    Davemy likes this.
  12. SonicMojo

    SonicMojo Active Member

    Again, no Ghosts (or Eastons for that matter) in our house!
  13. umpirejj

    umpirejj Member

    100% Refund. No questions ask.
    Hosting 5 tourneys this year.
    Well, now down to 4.
    Early May was canceled, all teams received 100% of the entry returned.
    Next one is Memorial weekend, we know what the chances are, but we are holding out as long as possible.
    If by chance we have to cancel that one then same: 100% refund.
    I will eat the cost of my time, supplies, balls can be used at the next tourney.
    It’s only my opinion, but no way it is fair to keep teams/organizations moneys when it comes to this Covid-19 thing.
    Completely different than a rain out situation.

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